Wk. 12 Okla -2.5 at WVU, Sat nite.

What happened to Kevin White anyway? Two years, two IRs for the Bears. Really interested to see what he turns into.

What happened to Kevin White anyway? Two years, two IRs for the Bears. Really interested to see what he turns into.

Pending late line line:  USM/UNT.

Download (PDF, Unknown)


Early lines:  Kent -2.5 at BG; OU at CMU, pk; Ball +20.5 at Toledo; NIU -2.5 at EMU.

  • zarathustra


    This line is too high. The Raiders have one of the best ATS records and are due to regress. Their defense isn’t great and Lamar Miller could be a real problem for them tonight. The Texans play good defense and it isn’t hard at all to imagine them grinding one out here.
    With all that said, I’m on the Raiders. I don’t think I’ve wagered on them once the past couple years as I’ve firmly believed they were overrated. Their last game was an impressive prime time performance so now might not be the best time to correct my prior error, but acknowledging error and correcting for it is far too important an endeavor to wait for perfect timing. Maybe they cover here, maybe they don’t. No one of course knows. I won’t be passing up the opportunity to admit I was wrong though. I’m abandoning my ill-formed priors and offering my false overrated Raiders narrative to the gods in hope that they will bestow upon me the vision to see the many things I am wrong about and the ability to admit it quickly so as to move on to better explanations of the world around me. (Not tonight though please.)

    • zarathustra

      It doesn’t feel right winning that.

  • pheasantpants

    Lions -6.5
    Cowboys -7

    • pheasantpants

      Steelers -anything

  • $$$ SEAHAWKS -6 $$$

    As good as the Eagles are at home, (4-0), they are equally unimpressive on the road (1-4). And while they haven’t been blown out in any games, they also haven’t had to travel to Seattle and play in the most difficult atmosphere the NFL has to offer. Hawks looked like they belonged in last week’s victory over New England. I think it’s a tough test for any quarterback against that defense in that atmosphere, let alone a rookie. I was also making a case for the Giants to be my pick of the week this week because after watching the Bears last week, and records aside, I think they’re actually worse than the Browns. But with this matchup, Eagles having only won two of their last six games, I think the Seahakws are a TD better at home.

  • FTCMikeD

    NFL Plays:
    Steelers -7.5 over BROWNIES
    I’m going to ride with the Chiefs for my essay. Don’t look now but they’ve only lost 2 of their last 19 games. Seems like an unreal number doesn’t it? Is anyone talking about this team outside of KC? The Chiefs offense is better than the Bucs offense by .2 yds/play, and their defense is better by .3 yds/play. The real difference is turnover differential, where the Chiefs are #1 in the league with +1.6 turnovers/game, while the Bucs are even at 0.0 turnovers/game. Alex Smith should be closer to normal after recovering from a concussion and the Chiefs have some great home field advantage, so I look for them to cover the 7.5 pt spread today in Kansas City.

  • HitTheHorns

    Ravens essay:
    I didn’t see the Tony Romo press conference, but judging from my twitter timeline he cured cancer, so congrats to him. Funny all those same people watched Luke Kuechly have a traumatic brain injury and rushed to tweet about “shortness of breath” (Rich Eisen) and reaction to a leg injury (Ian Rapoport). But I digress. I will essay against Dallas each week going forward until they fail to cover. Joe Flacco has worked really hard to not have embarrassing hair, and after 4 years he’s finally in a good place with his hair. I hope he sticks it up Ray Lewis’ ass for those comments about leadership.

    WVU (loss)

  • Since I know some people here will enjoy this and might have missed it, I debated the Cavs CEO on a League of Women Voters panel on public subsidies for sports owners and it was a real riot. Write-up of the highlights and lowlights here: http://www.clevelandfrowns.com/2016/11/the-cavs-want-70-million-more-in-public-money-to-renovate-the-q/

  • trashycamaro

    Too verbose this week, but baby turns one today so no time for editing.

    Cardinals -1 over Vikings Essay by default. Why would I make a failing team like the Cards my essay? That was almost dumb. This is not a pick for the Cards, its fading the Vikings. Not much needs to be said here – they lost a functional QB, replaced him with a functional QB, lost a star RB, replaced with dysfunctional QBs, then lost dysfunctional offensive tackles and replaced them with street free agents. Not really a whole lot they can do on offense, and it has been affecting their defense as well. When your offense is 3 and outing constantly it’s hard to play good defense. Vikings currently sit at #12 overall in DVOA, but slid from #8 last week and their weighted DVOA is #14. Sliding fast and hard.

    The Cardinals, of course, have not been great this year, certainly down from last year. Currently #19 overall, #25 on offense and #30 on special teams. Of course, that #4 defense looks awfully shiny. Combine that with MVP David Johnson and his #6 DYAR ranking and its good enough to win this game.

    EssayBills +3 over Bengals The struggle is real in Bungles world my friends, free falling to #17 in overall DVOA with #22 and #23 rankings in defense and special teams. Roughly translated, that means his team is old. Meanwhile, Shady’s back. Luckily, there is a theme song for that.

    Bills are 4-3 when McCoy is the leading rusher. After a return and an additional week off he is ready to go. Also, when he is on, he unlocks Tyrod, both in th epassing game and the runnnig game. As the weather turns cold, I am looking to the Bills with their rush game and top ranked pass rush to assert themselves and make a run at the last playoff spot in the AFC.

    Rams +1.5 over Dolphins Could this be my essay? Don’t think I can pull the trigger on a rookie QB. That aside, the Dolphins are moving up in the world, up to #6 in DVOA (from 12 last week!). We all know about the emergence of Ajayi, but the D-Line has finally gotten their sh#t together, with Wake and Suh finding their stride. That said, they are still sitting at only #15 in adjusted sack rate, woefully low for the $$$ on that d-line. They are a little better against the run, sitting at #13 in adjusted line yards. Still not great. Looking at their record does not inspire confidence – wins over Cleveland, Steelers(!), Bills (no Shady), and Jets. Hammered by Bengals and Titans.

    The Rams, as everyone knows, have been dreadful on offense hanging out at #30 in offensive DVOA. Despite all the comentary on Goff, I catually think the mere change is a positive because there is no tape on Goff (see Wentz earlier this year and all the only mildly terrible performances by Browns 1st time starters this year). Meanwhile the Rams sport the #10 overall defense in DVOA and the #3 special teams unit in DVOA.

    If Goff plays to the level of Case Keenum, Rams win.

    Eagles +6 over Seahawks By DVOA, the Eagles are the #1 team in football, with the Seahawks coming in #2. Seems like a simple value play taking the extra 3 points here. BTW, if you are wondering how Philly keeps sitting at the top of the DVOA metric, a lot of credit goes to their #1 rating in special teams. Anecdotally it feels like we see a TD by that unit every week. OF course, the rest of the credit goes to that #1 defense, which is #4 against the run and #2 in adjusted sack rate.

  • clayII

    NYG (-7.5)
    KC (-7.5)
    MIN (+1)
    PHI (+6)

    mon night essay

  • pheasantpants


  • TS_Butler


    • TS_Butler

      If you watched Hard Knocks, then you know Jared Goff can’t win this game. Just can’t. Won’t, in fact. Just that simple. If not the for the length “requirement,” I wouldn’t feel the need to write anymore. This was already one of the worst offenses the NFL has seen in awhile with Keenum behind center, Goff is the guy who isn’t as good. I’m jumping hard on what feels like the most popular NFL favorite this week but who cares? We have the chance to fade Goff, and why wouldn’t we.

      • TS_Butler

        Giants -7.5
        Lions -6.5
        Pats -12.5

        • TS_Butler

          Taking myself off Lions, going Chiefs

  • 1. Clemson
    2. USC
    3. Dolphins
    4. Packers
    5. Oklahoma (All Play)
    6. Steelers (Essay)

    Essay: Steelers – coming later.

    • Essay: Weather looks like it may play a role in this game today. From the few videos I’ve seen the wind is really going strong on the field. Luckily for the Steelers, they have a strong armed QB who can probably still make some throws when there’s not outrageous gusts. Unfortunately for the Browns, they have a QB who does not appear to have a strong arm. Even if the wind is blowing too much to throw the ball around, the Steelers have an array of weapons who can make open field plays off of short passes, the Browns do not. Could this be the one game Cleveland wins this year that no one expects them to? Sure. I’m just not betting on it.

  • oxr

    West Virginia +2.5 over Oklahoma

    • oxr

      Jags +6.5 over Lions
      Bills +3 over Bengals
      Titans +3 over Colts
      Raiders -6 over Texans

      Essay Dolphins -1.5 over Rams – Tough to decide which of these to bestow the kiss of death upon, but after much gnawing of fingernails I have to go with the Dolphins again (I can’t face another Random Bears Generator game). As has already been noted, Goff is coming into a bad situation with the tools to make it worse. Meanwhile, the Dolphins have looked surprisingly competent lately (6th in DVOA at the moment) which is enough to sucker me in once more. Since September the Rams have broken 20 points, and the Dolphins have failed to break 20 points, exactly one time apiece. One and a half points is a strikingly low line.

      I will note that the foregoing almost guarantees a rookie record-setting performance from future Hall of Famer Jared Goff, but it’s nice when young quarterbacks succeed, so at least we’ll have that going for us.

  • Matt Lawrence

    Troy -8.5 (L)
    Arizona +6.5
    WVU +2.5 (AP)

    • Matt Lawrence

      Ravens +7
      Seahawks -6
      Steelers (POTY)

      Steelers have not been playing well and are awful on the road. In fact, a Steelers fan told me that the Steelers are 5-26 under Tomlin on the road versus sub 0.500 teams. But, this is the Browns. Every week, people seem to think this is the week, but I’m believing there is no week for the Browns to even be competitive. Plus, I’m looking forward to my POTY winning while on site. I’ll be the Browns fan silently cheering for the black and yellow.

  • Matt Borcas

    Oklahoma, Colorado

    • Matt Borcas

      Oops, scratch Colorado — didn’t realize they already kicked off! Will update my Google form submission

    • Matt Borcas

      Titans, Steelers, Dolphins, Patriots

    • Matt Borcas

      Essay: Raiders

      Serious question: How in the world are the Texans 6-3 and leading the AFC South? After all, Brock Osweiler has proven to be a major disappointment (his Total QBR of 49.4 ranks him 30th in the NFL), Lamar Miller has been a bit underwhelming (only two TDs this season), and Houston has a -27 point differential. Nevertheless, the Texans have been able to load up on close wins against mediocre opponents, and they’re primed to represent their woeful division in the playoffs … where they could face off against the 7-2 Raiders, leaders of the AFC West (and, unlike the Texans, a legitimately good team!). Coming off a bye, Oakland is well rested, which will be especially beneficial in the high altitude of Mexico City (~2000 feet higher than Denver, for reference). Moreover, the Raiders are 5-0 on the road, so I doubt they’ll be fazed by the international trip. Did I mention Brock Osweiler is bad?

  • trashycamaro

    Michigan over Indiana
    Oklahoma over WVU

    so mad I didn’t look at the lines earlier, 13.5 was way too much for LSU over UF

  • bupalos

    Gotta pay attention to those start times, after watching Oregon last week I vowed never to NOT essay against them on any decent opponent letting them inside 2 scores.

    Fortunately, there’s another ugly one on the board here. The only reason Navy is giving anything like he measly 7.5 on offer is that the midshipmen drain so much clock doing what they do as well as they do, it could work against the cover. Two or three huge plays from the pirates will have all the Navy tickets praying that option play reaches the 1st down marker every time to save the extra 7 ticks. But it’s kind of hard to find where those 2 or 3 plays come from, and hard to see how anything other than the clock is the enemy here. And that option play probably WILL reach the 1st down marker every play. I’d set the over-under on long grinding Navy TD drives at 6, and yeah, their defense is pretty darn sucky but 42 points in essentially a 3-quarter game works for me. In fact, I’m having a hard time seeing a game I feel that much better about coming up anytime soon, so let’s just go ahead and tee up the !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!POTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Texas Tech -3 looks good too I’m tossing in OKLA for the all-play and the ‘fins to meet my NFL requirement.

    So the full bupalian slate:

    Baylor +2 (uh-oh)
    TCU -4 (double uh-oh)
    TTech -3
    Okla -2.5 AP
    Dolphins -1
    Navy -7.5 !!!!!!!!POTY ESSAY!!!!!!

  • EMU essay lose
    Mich, Okla, USC, Skins, Giants.

  • 1. Boise St. (L)
    2. Colorado -4.5 over Wazzu
    3. Oklahoma -2.5 over WVU
    4. Browns +7.5 over Steelers (FML)
    5. Rams +1.5 over Dolphins (FML×2)
    6. Baltimore Raisins +7 over Cowboys***

    There’s a lot to like about this Dallas team but I think they come back to earth this week after last week’s showcase win in Pittsburgh. As Squeeky asked, are the Steelers really that good? And that Packers win on the Cowboys resume doesn’t look so impressive at all anymore. 7 points is a lot against a Ravens team that needs to keep winning to stay at the top of a crowded AFC North. Flacco should be able to move the ball against a banged up Dallas secondary and hopefully keep this within a TD.


    1. Navy -7.5
    2. Bills +3
    3. Rams +1.5
    4. Eagles +6
    5. Wvu all play
    6. Arizona +6.5 (essay): a 2-8 team like Oregon state should never ever be laying this many points. Arizona only does one thing well and that’s running the football, with their 5.1 ypc ranking 27th nationally. Meanwhile Oregon state is 114th in the country stopping the run on D. Collins is Oregon state’s only real weapon and he’s out. The line has dropped to 3.5 so ton of value here

    • CLEVTA

      Ya know what let’s just make Arizona my POTY. I’m free rolling so why not

  • squeekycleen

    Essay: Browns: Is Pitt even good? Super overvalued, weak defense, idiot in game coach. We do know for sure the Clowns are bad, but that’s a known quantity. I’ll grab over a td in a rivalry game with a team running out of chances to get a win against a team in a supposed must-win spot. Playing against the must win probably my favorite thing to do in all sports. We will do it here. Stupid Clowns for the essay.

    NCSt (emailed)
    Jags (every week)
    Iowa St
    Wva all play

  • HitTheHorns


  • pateslvrblk

    Take the Dolphins, not because the Dolphins have won 4 straight, something doesn’t smell right abou the situation with Jared Goff. They won last week. How often does a team win and then they make the quarterback change? Think about that, you move from Case Keenum to Jared Goff after Case Keenum won a game, it didn’t look pretty but there’s something’s going on in Los Angeles. I think the Rams might not have as much hype in that city as they were hoping for and they are trying to infuse Goff in the situation to raise some awareness. I think half the city of LA is checking out on them because they are a boring watch. I think the Dolphins go in and I don’t think Goff is ready for this game and I think Miami will win.

  • thatsfine

    EMU +2.5 L
    Ark St +8.5 Essay W
    UL Monroe +25.5
    Oklahoma -2.5

    • thatsfine

      UMass +30

      • thatsfine

        Bears +7.5

  • pateslvrblk

    Essay to follow

  • squeeky via email:
    Hey put on nc st as a regular play for me. I’m running around trying to buy a house. I will put rest up later. Thanks!

  • pheasantpants

    MSU +22

  • bupalos

    TCU -4
    Baylor +2

  • Troy Bunting

    Essay Pick
    **Northwestern -1
    Strictly a momentum pick. Minnesota’s momentum got stalled last week, Northwestern has been hot. I’m a big Patty Fitz fan. Dude preaches toughness and grit. In a game where the temperature will be below freezing I think Northwestern, their running game, and a Patty Fitz defense have the edge. Justin Jackson has big day on the ground and Northwestern pulls away with the W.

  • John

    back for another week of torture. but like the kind where you like it….like an Asian foot rub. or watching Gilmore Girls

    Nebraska -14.5 over Maryland
    Essay- Wazzu -4 over Colorado

    all play- WVU +2.5 over Oklahoma

    • John

      Essay- Wazzu over Colorado-
      pretty sure these two will see each other in the Pac 12 championship.
      and I’m pretty sure Washington State’s offense gets it done THIS time (but I wouldn’t say that the next time)
      Colorado supposedly has a great secondary, but I think that they are deflated after the first two drives of the game.
      Lots of scoring, and Colorado will probably have a chance to win late in the game- but I’ll be holding onto into the closest inanimate object as I watch Wazzu finish the game with a big defensive stop.
      ugh. for the love.

      • John

        NFL Games
        Titans +3 over the Colts
        Steelers -7.5 over the Browns (sorry locals)
        Skins -2.5 over Packers

  • FTCMikeD

    Oof. Last week was the worst of an overall terrible Cheddar season. Just gotta get back on that horse while I sip my Virgin Lobersterita.
    College Plays:
    Miami FL -3 over NCST
    WSU +4.5 over COLO
    LSU -13.5 over Florida
    AP: WV +2.5 over Oklahoma

  • IOWA -9.5
    DUKE +7.5
    OKLAHOMA -2.5

    • John

      here I am – sitting on the other side of the OK/WV game…

  • jdoepke

    WV +2.5 (AP)
    Arizona +6.5
    Iowa St +3
    Kansas St +2
    Bears +7.5

    Essay: UTSA +27.5

    In need of an Essay win, after a hot start I’m reeling as of late. Admittedly, I don’t know much about UTSA but I see 65% of the action on A&M, and 80%+ of the money on UTSA. On top of that A&M hasn’t been the same since losing to Bama and has lost outright to 2 underdogs the last 2 weeks. Knowing this group like I do, I know UTSA is a popular pick. I also know that UTSA isn’t a bad football team and usually gets up for these big games. I like UTSA to keep it within the number. A&M wins 34-24

  • Dave Borcas

    Hopefully these work out better than the Troy beating on Thursday
    Air Force -10
    Kansas State -2
    Vanderbilt +10
    Oklahoma -2.5 (all play)
    Stiller -7.5 (essay and play of the year)
    Maybe my season record on essay plays will be just what the doctor ordered for the Browns. What would a doctor prescribe to you if your problems were having a starting QB coming back from injury, a start RB averaging only 3.5 YPC the last 6 weeks and a defense known for sacking the QB not sacking the QB. If you guessed the doctor would say play the Browns you would be right. The weather may be a bit of a neutralizer, but we also need to see how Cody Kessler, Terrell Pryor and Corey Coleman can handle the weather. It is really hard these days as a Browns fan, I mean really really bad. I used to look at a bad season as an opportunity to buy Browns gear post season at 75% off retail, but that those prices seem excessive these days, and my closet is full. The bright spot this week for the Browns is my all time favorite, Clay Matthews being a semi finalist for the Hall of Fame. I did invite Clay to my wedding, he did RSVP that he could not maker it since it was the first week of training camp. We did name our son after Clay, I had to settle for Matthew Clay, but hey as Trump says everything is a negotiation. I will hold out hope that we do sneak out a win this year, have a great off season and Make the Browns Great Again in 2017! I am rooting for a Browns win, but see the Stillers winning 34-17. Go home Yinzers!

  • Lucy Lawrence

    1. Louisville L
    2. Troy L
    3. All Play Oklahoma
    Back with the rest tomorrow!

    • Lucy Lawrence

      I’m switching my all play. Gotta roll with the home team at night getting pts.
      3. All Play: WVU

      • Lucy Lawrence

        Dolphins -1.5
        Titans +3
        Essay: Steelers -7.5

        I keep talking myself in and out of this play.
        -Is this a trap game.
        -Steelers always suck on the road.
        – But its the Browns.
        -Everyone is on Pittsburgh

        Well I’m going with Pitt bc I’m going to the game and why not take advantage of watching my essay pick live. I talk myself into the Browns each week and I’m sick of thinking they are going to surprise us and win a game. The rivalry is dead and the stadium will be filled with 75% Steelers fans. I hate that damn yellow towel but let’s hope they’re waving come the end of the game.

  • zarathustra

    Oklahoma St for one point please.

    • zarathustra

      I’ve watched a lot of WVA this year and usually end up on the wrong side of the zig-zag, so there’s a good chance I’m wrong here. Home for a night game in front of a rowdy crowd favors the ‘Neers and Oklahoma isn’t as good as last year, but West Virginia turns the ball over too much and while their defense is Big 12 good they haven’t faced a balanced offense like this yet. Oklahoma is the better team and these are the types of non-big games that seem like big games that made stoops big game Bob.

      Virginia Tech
      I think the Hokies are the better team and like that they are coming off a loss. If they bring their A game they should win easily. Also, Notre Dame spent the last couple weeks focusing on the triple-option and think they might struggle adjusting against a more conventional college offense.

      Last year these teams went to double-ot. Indiana isn’t as good as last year and Michigan is better, but this seems too high with Michigan in a big look-ahead spot and in control of their playoff destiny so not in need of style points.

      My preseason futures might be dead, but if we see a bit more chaos at the top of the rankings Wazzu finishing the year with three straight wins over top ten teams and a PAC 12 championship could sneak into the conversation.

  • cwonder23

    MSU +22 vs OSU
    VA Tech PK @ ND
    Steelers -7.5 @ Browns
    Washington St +4.5 @ Colorado
    All Play: Oklahoma -2.5 @ WVU
    Essay: Dolphins -1.5 @ Rams

    We’ve all seen the stat that first round rookie QBs are 0-9 in their first starts since 2001 or something. I don’t see this changing here. The fact that it is now week 11 in the NFL and the Rams are just now turning the ball over to Goff after a dreadful QB performance by Keenum isn’t the strongest endorsement. Further, nothing has changed with the talent around him. Miami is playing well lately since Ajayi decided to be Walter Payton which has allowed Tannehill to have more confidence chucking the pig skin around. The Rams will try and lean on Gurkey but I think Miami will force Goff to throw the ball. I just don’t see this game going well for the Rams and their rookie QB. Miami 24 – Rams 7.

  • Hawkaholic

    Michigan -23 vs. Indiana
    Colorado -4.5 vs. Washington State
    Nebraska -14.5 vs. Maryland
    Giants -7.5 vs Bears
    AP: WVU +2.5 vs. Oklahoma

    Essay: Texas Tech -3 @ Iowa State
    I have refused to play the Hawks for most of the year and thank god, my analysis has been horrible. I however will pick against the Cyclones anytime i can and when i saw this line i thought Christmas had come early. If I had a POTY left this would be it! As everyone knows Texas Tech scores by the truckload which is typically a good recipe for success, especially against the hapless Cyclones. Tech averages a staggering 582 yards per game resulting in 46 points per contest. Texas Tech is the #1 ranked team in the nation in total offense, Iowa State is the 104th ranked team in total defense. Texas Tech is only a 4 point favorite, i like the direction this is going. HOWEVER, it is going to be very cold and very windy in Ames today, game time temps will be around 34 degrees at kickoff with 20mph + winds. This will definitely have an effect on that Tech offense, this game wont be as lopsided as it should be but i still believe the Red Raiders pull this one out by a couple of touchdowns.

    The Hawkeyes are giving 9.5 to Illinois today in Champaign in case you were wondering. If i bet on Iowa i would take Illinois and the points at home. So you should probably go the other way if picking this game.

  • zizzer13

    Nebraska -14.5 over Maryland
    West Virginia +2.5 over Oklahoma
    Lafayette +23 over Georgia

    • zizzer13

      Oakland -6 over Houston
      Green Bay +2.5 over Washington (essay)

      Inevitably, when people start talking about the Browns and where the starting point needs to be for them to get back to being decent, let alone respectable, they always point to the need for a franchise quarterback, as though having one of the league’s top 10 signal callers automatically makes that team good.

      I’ve seen and worked with enough football teams to know that’s complete and utter shit. Does it help? Sure it does. But it’s not the end-all, be-all. Denver won the Super Bowl last year with a walking corpse behind center who couldn’t throw the ball farther than 15 yards downfield. Hell, Trent Dilfer has won a Super Bowl. On the flip-side, ask Colts fans what they think about having one of the best quarterbacks that they can’t keep upright.

      Which brings me to the pick. Aaron Rodgers is one of the best quarterbacks the league has – makes all the throws necessary, is very accurate, reads defenses well… and yet the Packers are complete and utter shit this season. Doesn’t help that their running backs have spent more time in the training room than on the practice field, but for whatever reason, they’ve been downright awful.

      Yet the NFC Central is putrid, and it’s there for the taking. The Bears are crap, the Vikings have come back down to earth, and the Lions are the Lions. So Green Bay has a clear path back to the playoffs, and it starts where they started their playoff journey last season, with a throttling of the ‘Skins.

  • FlyHighCharlieFrye


    rest later

    • FlyHighCharlieFrye

      and LSU

      running out of chances to bet against Austin Appleby

      • FlyHighCharlieFrye

        Az Cardinals – 1

        Steelers -7.5

        I hate that line. I hate how Antonio Brown whines, and how the Steelers play no defense at all. But the Browns. Even off a longer week, even at home, even with EVERYTHING to gain and nothing to lose, they’re the Browns. Worst defense in modern football history. Intentionally led by guys who have never worked in football before. Cody Kessler in the snow and wind.

        LeVeon Bell will win you $5 million in draft kings, and he’ll help the Steelers win by a bunch.

  • Chris Schroeder

    -8.5 Old Dominion @ Florida Atlantic
    -14 Utah vs. Oregon
    -28 Penn State @ Rutgers
    -12.5 New England Patriots @ San Francisco 49ers
    All Play: + 2.5 West Virginia vs. Oklahoma

    Essay: -7.5 Navy @ East Carolina
    Location: Greenville, North Carolina
    Stadium: Dowdy-Ficklen Stadium
    Kickoff: 4:00 EST
    Broadcast: ESNN
    Weather: 72 Partly Cloudy WSW 15 mph
    Mascots: Bill the Goat vs. PeeDee the Pirate

    The Game: Big game on the line for the Midshipmen. Emotions will run high in a contest that should not carry such. Navy is one win away from gaining access to the American Athletic Conference Championship Game, which will be a first for the University due to being independent since it’s beginning. Navy was looking for a bye week this week but Hurricane Mathew caused the game to be postponed to this week. Navy has been playing some tight games this season, but I am banking on the emotion factor to cover just over one score. The Pirates offense has taking a hit lately with multiple quarterbacks on the verge of injured reserve, this I am thinking will help Navy open up the scoreboard. I am hoping the Midshipmen can keep things rolling and the first ever Championship invitation will hopefully give them enough emotion to cover 7.5.

  • PJD19

    OSU over MSU
    Buckeyes hit a mid season lull against PSU and a close win over Northwestern and have been cruising since. They’ve beat two pretty good teams by 50+. MSU is really beat up. I’ve played football on a few underachieving teams and sometimes if a game starts going poorly when you’re an underachieving squad (at least in the eyes of your fans with high expectations) it can be way tougher than being on the road. I think the Bucks continue their momentum into this game, start hot and run away with it.

  • Harbaugh Handshakes

    West Virginia
    Notre dame
    Pats -12.5

    Pats off a lost against a terrible sf team. The defense should be hungry to prove they don’t stink. Let’s hope they really don’t. I expect the pats to come out focused and put a beat down on the niners

  • RCLA

    All play: Oklahoma.
    Also: Cal, UCLA, Ravens, Patriots
    Essay: Steelers

    Look, the Browns may be feeling chipper with a few extra days rest. And I generally want nothing to do with road favorites in rivalry games. Quite the opposite, in fact (see Cal, UCLA, above). But the long running local radio trope / faux argument regarding whether this is still a “rivalry” is about semantics, not reality. Most of the Browns players were born in the 90s. The first Browns team they can possible remember was the expansion team in 1999. That team is 4-19 against the Steelers. The Steelers have been to the playoffs ten times and the Browns once. And, more importantantly than any of that, there is no “special” feeling in Cleveland this week because we are playing the Stelelres. And the Steelers have to have this game. This comes close to being one of those “it’s so right it must be wrong” games, but fuck it, lay the points.

  • Jmacdaddio

    Pitt -7.5
    TCU -4
    AP: WVU +2.5
    Essay: Miss St -1.5

    Rams +1.5
    Giants -7.5

    Holy crap, I’m knocking on the playoff door this deep into the Cheddar season. It’s a strange feeling, sort of like being on a breakaway to the hoop at your weekly YMCA pickup game after swiping the rock from Jerry the Accounts Receivable clerk, when you don’t get the ball much, and really you’re just there for exercise. You just hope you don’t mess it up.

    Mississippi State and Arkansas are both coming off of beatdowns. Both teams have managed to defeat ranked opponents in prior weeks, and both teams can put up points. With that deep scientific analysis, it could be deemed a toss up. Home field will help the Bulldogs a little more than a point and a half. (Mississippi State’s nickname is the Bulldogs, right?)

  • p_forever

    okla -2.5 wvu
    nebraska -14.5 maryland
    florida +13.5 lsu
    utah -14 oregon
    green bay +2.5 washington
    ucla +12.5 usc***

    i know usc is the team nobody wants to play etc etc, but this line seems a bit much. ucla is fighting to save their season, which hasn’t been as disastrous as say, nd’s, but that’s not saying much. plus i still believe in things like letdown games (sam darnold had the biggest win of his career last week), rivalry games and home field advantage. all of those things weigh in favor of ucla here. plus i can’t help it i hate those stupid white cheerleader sweaters.

  • mmmmsnouts

    ALL PLAY: Oklahoma -2.5. I really don’t know who’s going to win this, but since the line is now -3.5 I’ll take the value. Also it will be cold and windy and it might snow and OU runs the ball better.

    USC -12.5 vs. UCLA
    Arkansas +1.5 vs. Mississippi State (classic Novembert game)
    Tulsa -1 vs. UCF
    Seahawks -6 vs. Eagles

    ESSAY: Navy -7.5 vs. East Carolina

    I had to make sure this wasn’t a misprint before I jumped all over it. Here’s the thing. There are three (3) teams in The American that have absolutely quit. One is Cincinnati, which still had a little fight left in it but officially mailed it in as of tonight’s game against Memphis. Another is UConn and their lunatic head coach Bob Diaco, who burned the redshirt of his highly touted freshman quarterback to try and save his own ass only to watch the Huskies get shut out by Temple.

    And then there’s East Carolina. What a mess that team is. Both their quarterbacks are dinged up and neither one is playing well. Their defense is simply horrid. They’re ineligible to go to a bowl now. Last week they gave SMU five turnovers, including two defensive touchdowns. The marching band drove a wedge right through the fan base a few weeks ago when a few kids knelt during the national anthem and country-ass Greenville fucking lost its shit. The decision to fire Ruffin McNeill looks worse and worse every week. And now here comes Navy and its meat grinder, death machine offense, who just needs one win to earn a spot in the conference title game. The line is up to 9, so there’s value at this number. Oh, and this game had to be rescheduled from October because of a hurricane, so the crowd will be tiny and ECU will be even less interested in playing. Middies will roll.

  • Brian

    Washington State +4.5
    Arkansas +1.5
    Oklahoma State +4
    Seattle Seahawks -6
    Oklahoma -2.5
    Pittsburgh Steelers -7.5 ***ESSAY***

    Coming off of 4 straight losses, the steelers got extremely lucky with their schedule this week. The browns are miserable and as much as i keep hearing the whole “we wont go 0-16” talk, the less i believe it. The browns are god awful on defense and if they couldn’t stop le’veon bell and antonio brown before…then they have absolutely no shot in hell to do it this year. Giving up 30+ a game is never a good stat. I don’t care how bad the steelers defense has been this year, the browns have been nothing short of terrible for the entire season. As much as I hope to see the browns succeed, the more it looks like the most exciting day of our season will be in the first or second week of May as usual. We will have 4 or 5 months to contemplate on who we should take with the #1 pick in the draft, and along with that we will have 4 or 5 months of praying that we don’t F**K this up again. I don’t like rooting against the browns but everytime I pick against them I usually win. So here goes nothing.

  • Nick

    ****Titans****Essay no essay week.

  • Boise -28.5 over UNLV for one vote

  • GRRustlers

    Week 12 Picks

    Boise (-28.5) over Nevada
    MSU (+22) over OSU
    Seahawks (-6) over Eagles
    Patriots (-12.5) over 49ers

    AP – WVU (+2.5) over Oklahoma – Don’t believe in this for one second but I swore off Oklahoma for life so let’s make things uncomfortable for the Playoff committee.

    Essay Pick

    I watch a lot of college football but the vast majority of it is watching sections of games or multiple games at once. Kids and work will do that do you. The exception is that I have seen every play of Colorado football this year and the vast majority during my adult years. You want to know why it’s easy for me to be a Browns fan? I lived through Dan Hawkins and once saw Jon Embree call a QB dive on a 1st down because he did not realize the refs moved the chains. Memories. I should be on the Buffs this Saturday but I’m too invested in that and there is a much better play out there. The best team I saw CU play this year was USC. I’m not trying to take anything away from Michigan but Colorado handed them that game with awful special teams play and a QB injury before the half. USC is terrifying right now and the best case for a 16 team playoff. That is why there is no shame and no need to overreact in Washington. Arizona State is a disaster right now and this is a perfect time for Washington to right the ship and keep playoff hopes alive that are much better than what the talking heads think.

    Washington (-27) over Arizona State

  • Chris P.

    I was going to write something political here, but screw it… let’s just get to the real reason why I’m in a good mood.

    1) I’m writing this from a plate of eggs at the Honeymoon Grille
    2) I need a big week to get back into things.
    3) This week’s schedule is set up to provide that sort of big week.

    West Virginia +2.5 Oklahoma
    South Florida -13 Southern Methodist
    Florida State -21 Syracuse
    Middle Tennessee State -4.5 Charlotte
    Raiders -6 Texans

    At what point is it a funk, and at what point are you worse than the bottom tier of the MAC? Well, at this point you’d be lucky to win a confrence game in the MAC, Rutgers. I don’t see a way to slice this – Rutgers might be the worst Big 10 team I’ve ever seen. Worse than Indiana, Illinois or Northwestern at their worst. I’m trying to stretch this – but Penn State is really good. They may not be the best team in the Big 10, but they have the single best win in America, they’re going to win a three way tiebreak, and have a shot at making it all the way. They’re not going to do anything but throttle a crap-ass team like Rutgers. They’ll have this covered arounf halftime and just pile on. I’d say they were coming for their women and their children, but that’s a super touchy subject in Happy Valley.

    I can’t believe I just wrote that. Break a leg, guys.

    Penn State -28 Rutgers

  • Funny week for football, it is. A Louisville ass-kicking courtesy of the Cougars sets a most auspicious tone for the remainder of underdogs facing top ten teams this weekend. With the Thanksgiving break upon us – students may opt to go home instead of sticking around to see a supposed blowout – leaving some stadiums a little quieter than usual, eerie, even. There is only one game within the top ten teams that has a spread less than three touchdowns and it is, of course, our All Play. So many nerves. And you know who have a lot of nerve(s)? Jim Harbaugh. He is feeling like a little kid just before Christmas who already saw the new PS4 in his parents closet. He is living everyday in simultaneous excitement and fear – because that PS4 can be returned at any moment. The team’s focus is surely not on the lowly Hoosiers – but on the Buckeyes next week, a great rivalry, resurrected. I wouldn’t mind seeing Harbaugh squirm a little bit this week. **Essay Pick: Indiana +23 vs. Michigan**

    AP: WVU +2.5 vs. Oklahoma
    Purdue +28 vs. Wisconsin
    Arizona State +27 vs. Washington
    Rutgers +28 vs. Penn State
    Bengals -3 vs. Cinci

  • Matt Lawrence

    Troy -8.5

  • Galea Minor

    WVU +2.5 over Oklahoma (All-Play)
    Iowa -9.5 over Illinois
    Va Tech over Notre Dame
    Washington St +4.5 over Colorado
    Steelers -7.5 over Browns
    Lions -6.5 over Jags (Essay)

    Today, Lions linebacker DeAndre Levy said that the greatest moment of his college career was breaking Joe Paterno’s leg. That’s fantastic.

    Yup I’m essaying the Lions again. They now lead the division, and seem like the only team in the division that isn’t dealing with massive internal turmoil. That might be enough, even if they’ll be hard-pressed to do better than 9-7 on year. Consider their remaining schedule:

    @ Saints
    @ Giants
    @ Cowboys

    Simply winning the home games would give them a 9-7 record with nice 4-2 division record. But I think they’ll do even better. The Lions are gonna roar out of the bye week gate with a new lease on life. If the aforementioned Levy comes back and plays well, he can solve one of the biggest team handicaps (covering TEs) by himself. Is there precedent for this? 1995 baby.

    The 1995 Lions were 3-6 at this point in the season. They went on a 7 game winning streak to close it out, winning 3 road games. Scott Mitchell and Barry Sanders were the stars of that year. Feels like I’ve been spending all year tweeting about Bill Mitchell and Bernie Sanders. Did you know Scott Mitchell’s real first name is William? Makes you think.

    Herman Moore had 1,686 yards and 14 TDs. Imagine having that guy in your fantasy league.

    The 1995 Lions wound up traveling to Philly in their first playoff game. It was tied 7-7 and then the Eagles dropped 31 points in the 2nd quarter. Looking this game up, I just realized that the Eagles QB in that game was former Lion Rodney Peete. Amazing.

    I miss the mid-90s NFL so much.

  • Dave Borcas

    Troy -8.5 tonight

  • LittleBallofHate

    Not much to say — Troy -8.5; OSU -22; Bengals -3; Pats -12.5
    All Play — Boomer Sooner -2.5
    Steelers (-7.5) at Browns
    I remember when this rivalry used to be fun and seeing fistfights between Steelers and Browns fans in the old stadium. Now First Energy is more like Heinz Field West. There hasn’t even been a good clash between Steelers and Browns fans since James Harrison tackled the Browns fan in 2005. Browns will keep it competitive in the first half before the Steelers take control in the second half. Plus it just keeps getting worse in Berea as we see even more examples in majoring in the minor. This week they decided to print finish in the end zone.

  • Lucy Lawrence

    1. Troy -8.5
    2. Louisville -14

  • CLEinMSP

    Houston +14

    • CLEinMSP

      Miami -3
      Seahawks -6
      Bengals +3
      Oklahoma -2.5 (All Play)
      Vandy +10 (Essay)

      I don’t know much about Vandy’s squad other than they generally play low scoring games and they have Pat Shurmur’s kid at QB. I’ve taken them the last couple weeks and they easily covered against Auburn, but dug too deep a hole last week at Mizzou. Ole Miss went on the road and beat a decent A&M team last Saturday night, so I’m hoping they come to Vandy and play a sloppy, close game. I’m think Vandy has a decent defense, and they have a week of game film to scout the Ole Miss backup that’s taken over when Kelly went down. This seems like a game that could go either way, so with that said, I’ll take Vandy getting 10 at home this week.

      • CLEinMSP

        Didn’t realize Bengals were -3. Kanick, I am swapping my Bengals pick out for Lions -6.5. I changed it in the Google Form as well. Thanks!

  • actovegin1armstrong

    ****Steelers -7.5****
    Hoping I am incorrect, but the line should be at least 14 points. NFL odds makers balk at heavy favorites and this is a prime example. The talent in the NFL is fairly equal every week, so this one should go to the Shurmer test…. Wait a moment, Tomlin has Shurmur’ed himself a couple of times. If the Steelers want a big win, this is it.. The Browns cannot even “Suck for Luck”, I am very happy to see that the BAP is a DEFENSIVE end. The Browns shall be playing a quarterback, both of their choices are good, however the Steelers will have the much more experienced Ben Ruthlessraper and he shall steer them to an easy victory. Both sides of the line choices go to the Steelers too.Pouncey is still an idiot, but still a monster center as well. Advantage Steelers. Steelers by 14 points at least.

  • actovegin1armstrong

    U of Houston

  • actovegin1armstrong

    Saturday Saturday Saturday Night is Alright for Fighting
    It is getting late have you seen my mates?
    Tell me when the boys get here
    Saturday Night is alright for fighting get a little action here
    WVU -2.5
    Minn +1.5
    BYU -30

    • actovegin1armstrong

      had the wrong games

      • actovegin1armstrong

        Did anyone notice that Clemson Clemsoned themselves all over the place last week?

    • FUN! but the mid-70s rocker that’s rattling in my head these days is thanks to my current favorite twitter follow.

      • actovegin1armstrong

        Told them you were living downtown
        Driving all of the old men crazy

  • ChuckKoz

    Arizona +6.5 (OSU)
    Arizona St +27 (UW)
    Oregon +14 (Utah)
    Texans +6 (Raiders)
    AP: OU -2.5 (UWV)
    Essay: USC -12.5 (UCLA)
    Time for revenge. SC is borderlining on being “back”, as supported by last weeks domination in Seattle, 6 straight wins overall, and 5 of which by double digits (close win against the Buffs). UCLA meanwhile is borderlining on being “back” to what you expect with UCLA, as supported by losing 4 or 5, being 2-5 in the Pac 12 (only wins against bottom feeding and OSU and very disappointing UA), and really looking like true shit since Heisman hopeful (preseason only) Josh Rosen went out. So with both teams teetering, I see USC looking for and delivering revenge for several years of the LA football scene suddenly being about “has UCLA taken over” talk. Not to mention, its not totally insane to think SC could make the CFP (just sort of), as they have a clear path to the conference title game and then you have to wonder if the committee would really put in a second “B1G” team and leave out the Pac 12 again….thereby insuring the entire Pac 12 loses their shit and demands the system overhauled….or will they just put in whoever wins the Pac 12 and stiff Wisconsin or Penn St? Either way, if I am a kid on that USC team, after taking down UW convincingly, I am starting to feel the corner is turned and we are the SC team of old days, and what better way to show it than stomping on UCLA.
    USC 40, UCLA 17

  • mmmmsnouts

    Not ready to pick yet but just wanted to say, when I saw “Pending late line: USM/UNT” I thought it said “Pending late line: USMNT.” If we were allowed to pick USMNT games, Costa Rica would have been my essay this week for sure.

  • thatsfine

    EMU +2.5

    • thatsfine

      Ark St +8.5 Essay
      The first week in school history a football team has been ranked in the AP Top 25 seems like the perfect time to go against them. I’ve been a firm believer in Troy this year. They are clearly the best team in the league both offense and defense, their FBS rankings bear this out. But, even with their statistical domination they’ve occasionally let lesser teams hang around: beating South Alabama by 7, Ga State by 10, UMass by 21 (for UMass that counts as hanging around). Arkansas State is a pretty good team that keeps getting better, winning 5 in a row, covering 4 of those. Much credit goes to the defense only giving up 16.2 points/game during that stretch. The Red Wolves pulled the same crap last year – starting off slow, then locking in and playing well to close out the schedule undefeated in Sun Belt play. They’ve now won 12 in a row in conference. It’s tough to gauge this team based upon yearlong statistics, because they were so damn bad starting 0-4, and have looked solid since going 5-0. I’m seeing a letdown spot with the pressure on and too many points to cover.

  • EMU +2.5 for a cheddar.

  • bupalos

    Still a bad week to be a woman (or a human being or water supply, or forest, or any molecule that must concern itself with nuclear conversion, for that matter) but I hope this Illustrious board will note that the ladies are lifting at least 3 times their weight in the top 10. And Agnes-of-Cheddar just lobstered the ?@#! out of all yall sausage-clowns!

    • without agreeing with (but failing to ignore) the insanity of the alinsky part of your statement (rules 5, 8, 11, 13), the women in our pool consistently find the top of the leaderboard. that’s become standard. pate and agnes were there last year and still up top; lucy and kitty have stepped up for p4’s off year and cltil’s hiatus. and we know p4 will round into form…. not sure but hopeful cltil will be back.

      • bupalos


        Actually I miss the old back and forth, I thought you’d have some of that here. I’ve genuinely wondered lately if someone of your persuasion was all-in on this Donald J. Trump fellow.

        • yeah those never go quite like one hopes. but a little push back is sometimes useful to remind that dissent lives.
          i have wondered about how this pool voted; i suspect it’s closer to 50-50 than would be expected at first glance.

          and yes, i sprinted to the polls to vote for him in the feb nh primary.

          • bupalos

            I think nothing is so true as that lots and lots of people like the way Mssr. Trump “dissents,” if that’s what we’re calling it, even if their mothers gave them the good sense to be too embarrassed to admit it.

            I’d bet we’re close to 50-50, but that’s only because there is a institutional history and writing requirement. If this was a straight football voting venue, I’d expect more like 30-70 in favor of the kind of noble dissent represented by our incredible, fantastic friend. I mean, it would make your head spin.

          • HitTheHorns

            Full transparency, I voted for Hillary. I also made the statement day before the election that not only would she win, it would be the biggest blowout in the history of American politics. So, if there is anyone on here using my football picks, and I don’t think there is, please stop.

          • i suppose if i had to pick one win to hit this year, it wouldnt have been the dreadful mizzou (what was i thinking) over lsu at baton rouge POTY or last night’s ‘go to lunch up 21-0 come back at last break lose 24-31.’ it’s what i’m telling myself anyway.

  • ***EMU +2.5 v NIU
    wait, you’re telling me EMU is bowl eligible? and NIU is not and won’t be* also ending its run of seven straight MAC West crowns? and that NIU’s senior QB is out for the season and now a sophomore ginger is in charge? and it’s AT yspilanti? (weather to be perfect for midwest football.) where The Factory could see a crowd of over 2000 fans for the first time in 30 years? ooh boy, i want in.

    EMU’s rush defense is decent and running will bes what NIU will need rely on. without one of their usual QB run threats, it’s hard to muster too much concern over that. meanwhile, toledo’s own brogan roback seems to be fulfilling his potential as a qb. he had his tires kicked by over half of the big ten before accepting the EMU LOI. then there was the mystery suspension earlier this year. then there’s his name — brogan roback. it sounds like it came from a michael scott action flick screeplay. this guy has stories to tell, there is no question. but his trend since coming back has been a steady move upward with pass yds of 47, 91, 255, 347, 319, 328, and then last weeks full on air raid at ball state with 468 yds on 71 attempts. EMU came back to win after spotting ballu three TDs in the first quarter. their confidence could not be higher.

    i have no doubt this is a public play (it is, 65% on EMU.) but i want to be a part of the public on this.
    *fine, theyre not technically eliminated but at 3-7 and if they win out theyre 5-7 and a bid could possibly float their way but doubtful, very doubtful.

    • Capitalgg

      Thanks for getting that in for me, @603brown:disqus

      And now the rest of the story…
      [All-play] Oklahoma -2.5 @ West Virginia: No good reason, playing gut here.
      2. Indiginous Persons -2.5 v. Packers: There’s big trouble in the land of cheese.
      3. TCU -4 v. Oklahoma St.: Cowboys luck has run out, TCU D playing very well.
      4. USC -12.5 @ UCLA

      The Miami Dolphins played out in San Diego last week and rather than fly home to south Florida, they decided to stay in sunny southern California as they prepare to face the Rams in LA. The Raiders pulled this off earlier this year in Florida getting the win in the 2nd half of the trip in Jacksonville. As we all recall, the 49ers pulled this off a few years back with a vacation to sunny Youngstown, Ohio. So the history is good teams coming together after retreat week.

      Also advantageous for the Dolphins, their running game has come into it’s own. While Rams are moving on to #1 overall pick Jared Goff getting his first start. There was a reason the Rams’ hadn’t given him a start yet, so this may be a tough task against the recently surgent ‘Phins. So I’ll give the points and ride Dolphins -1.5 in Los Angeles.

      Other Considerations
      Cardinals -1 @ Vikings
      Seahawks -6 v. Eagles
      Arkansas +1.5 @ Mississippi St.
      USF -13 @ SMU

  • agnesbojaxhiu

    OU for one point

    • agnesbojaxhiu

      So I follow up my lobster fest with an immediate maction miss. C’est la
      vie. I’m glad I got one this season. Whilst doing my spread sheet last
      week, I had a number of teams that had covered or not covered 4 in a row
      and I put them all on my watch list. 10/12 continued their trend (thus
      staying on my list for this week). I wondered if there were a propensity
      for a team to cover or not cover the 5th game when they have a 4 game
      streak going on (of course it has little to do with the team and
      everything to do with my Vegas Mathclub kids). I wondered if this were
      an isolated experience or if it were true for the whole college season.
      Luckily I have the numbers and some quick reviewing of the year showed
      51 times college teams have had a 4 game cover/not cover streak this
      season and the trend has continues 33/51 times. The ability to be able
      to pick at 67% would be quite and advantage if I were a betting women.
      Also when a team covers/not covers 5 in a row, it is much more likely to
      not continue the trend for another week. There have actually only been a
      handful of teams with 6 in a row or more this season in either college
      or NFL (I may have explained this before but in statistics it is not
      considered a trend unless 5 data points in a row go in the same
      direction. Although they may be using a more formal method of evaluation
      such as regression analyses in Vegas to plan the lines, I am going to
      stick to more simple math-also despite my lobster fest last week-cheddar
      bay really does not pay my bills and I should not spend so much time
      analyzing the football numbers when I have research that actually
      affects peoples lives lying in wait for publication). To that end Tulsa
      has covered 5 in a row and Central Florida has only covered 4. My 3
      points are on UCF this week.

      Troy -8.5 Ark St
      Tulane +15
      WV +2.5
      UCF +1
      Ravens +7

  • zizzer13

    Not seeing the form, but I’d like to take Kent State over Bowling Green -2.5 for one Cheddar tonight…

    • dammit. i knew i forgot something. i’ll get you and agnes booked by the morning.

    • zizzer13

      Oof. Not that I want to take points away from myself, but Mike, you’d actually entered me as BGSU for the game last night, not Kent State. I lost, and lost big…

      This self-policing thing sucks…

      • but the form says BG.. oh right , i did that. thank you, got it.

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