Forfeit. (If true.)

NFL: New England Patriots Rookie Minicamp

“Hi Bill, this is Mike Kensil, NFL, New York. Got a couple minutes?”

Everything in the piece is caveated with “If the Pats are found to have altered the game balls…” Yes, I understand the investigation is proceeding.  No, I’m not going to preface every statement in the piece with that clause.  I’m going to trust you to know my intention and that I’m fully cognizant that the investigation is on-going and it is unclear whether this was any more than a normal loss of air pressure due to temperature.

Ever try to submit a ticket to your sportsbook after kickoff and explain that the game hasn’t materially started yet?  Ever blow .085 in a breathalyzer and and explained to the police that your were just almost under the limit so give me a fine and not a six month suspension?  Ever try to argue anything ever with the IRS?

There are rules, simple rules, that govern our lives.  If you follow them, there’s no problem. If you don’t, you’re cheating and you risk getting caught and if you are caught you must face your punishment.

Risk versus reward.

Apparently the Pats felt the risk of deflating game balls was worth the minuscule edge received.  Apparently the Pats cheated plain and simple in the biggest game of the year and — this is important — calculated that the NFL couldn’t possibly take the Super Bowl game away from them even if they were caught.

My premise is this:  If it turns out that a Patriots’ employee deliberately altered game balls the Pats should forfeit the game and the Colts should go to the Super Bowl.

The story so far.

Eleven of the twelve balls designated for use by the Pats’ offense were under-inflated in the first half Foxboro last Sunday for the Pats’ 45-7 win over the Colts in the AFC Championship game.  The dozen balls used by the Colts were also tested and found to be fine.  (For clarity:  there are two sets of 12 footballs and Brady’s had two to three pounds less air pressure and so were easier to grip and throw than Luck’s.)

Here’s the timeline of reports.


According to a person familiar with the background of the matter, the Colts first noticed something unusual after an interception by Colts linebacker D’Qwell Jackson in the second quarter. Jackson gave the ball to a member of the Colts’ equipment staff, who noticed the ball seemed under-inflated and then notified coach Chuck Pagano. General manager Ryan Grigson was notified in the press box, and he contacted Mike Kensil, NFL director of football operations. Kensil then told the on-field officials at halftime, when the Patriots led 17-7. The Patriots erupted for 21 points in the third quarter, although it is not known if any of the balls were improperly inflated after halftime.


The NFL has found that 11 of the New England Patriots’ 12 game balls were inflated significantly below the NFL’s requirements, league sources involved and familiar with the investigation of Sunday’s AFC Championship Game told ESPN. The investigation found the footballs were inflated 2 pounds per square inch below what’s required by NFL regulations ….  Under NFL rules, no alteration of the footballs is allowed once they are approved. ESPN Sports Radio 810 in Kansas City reported that the Patriots’ footballs were tested at the half, reinflated at that time when they were found to be low, then put back in play for the second half, and then tested again after the game. The report did not reveal the results of the test following the game.  All of the balls the Colts used met standards, according to the report. Yet to be determined is what, if any, penalties may be imposed upon the Patriots. One source described the league as “disappointed … angry … distraught” after spending considerable time on the findings earlier Tuesday.

No word on whether the investigation includes the Patriots’ much tighter 35-31 win over the Ravens the week before at Gillette.

“The NFL can’t forfeit the Pats’ win, it’s too harsh of a punishment.”

Belichick hasn't posted at Sankaty Head lately but club golfers generally know the rules.

Belichick hasn’t posted at Sankaty Head lately but club golfers generally know the rules.

When engaging on this point, it feels like talking with a new golfer who plays with buds on weekends but maybe hasn’t played club matches or stoke play tournaments before.  He might fluff his lie in the rough, or kicks the ball out from behind a tree, or drops nearer to hole and that might fly in a friendly Nassau with bros.  But in a competitive match improvising your own set of rules with the rationalization that it didn’t impact the match so it was ok does not fly.  No.  You’re cheating and the penalties for cheating in golf are harsh.

Bond goes Belichick on Goldfinger, but hey:  Strict Rules of Golf.

Bond goes Belichick on Goldfinger, but hey: Strict Rules of Golf.

Ground your club in a hazard in a match sometime and then let the club pro adjudicate after the match is over.  You will lose the hole (match play) or two strokes (stroke play).  If you signed your scorecard with the wrong score for that hole, you lose the match or are disqualified.1  Non golfers struggle mightily with the ethos of golf.  I remember well the outcry about the outcry over Tiger’s rules breach in the Masters.  But even Goldfinger understood the meaning of “strict rules of golf” and he wanted to freaking nuke the gold in Ft. Knox.

Back to the case of (possibly) deflated game balls:

  1. It’s a rule.
  2. It’s a fundamental and explicit rule.
  3. They broke it.
  4. They went out of their way to break it.
  5. They went out of their way to break it in the biggest game of the year.

Some think a fine is appropriate punishment?   Some think firing the poor ball boy is appropriate punishment?  Some think firing Belichick appropriate?  Some think losing draft picks is an appropriate punishment? Nonsense.  There isn’t a Browns fan on earth who wouldn’t trade all of the above for a Super Bowl berth so even the aggregate of those punishments is not appropriate. The punishment for breaking rules is supposed to be of greater consequence than the incentive for rule breaking. If its not, then why the hell not break the rules?

Try this scenario.


Can you even imagine if this happened in the the age of twitter?

I actually didn’t have a huge problem with ‘Spygate.’2  Didn’t occur during a game, on the field… seemed as though they could do the same thing with a coach with a pen and notepad.  I didn’t feel like the lining up with four regular linemen against the Ravens was unsporting.  It’s within the rules and so it’s fine.  I think the correct call was made in the Tuck Rule game.  And has Tom Brady never not been listed as ‘Probable’ on injury reports?  It’s sleazy but,, ok fine. But this is different and here’s the best analogy I can come up with: What if the Gillette Stadium has a telescoping crossbar with which the upright width can be narrowed by, say, one foot when the opposing team is approaching that side or widened by a foot when the Pats approach? Should they then forfeit the game?   Or should we consider whether any field goals were attempted on against those uprights and if not let it slide?  Hey it’s only a foot, what’s the problem!  Would it matter that a couple field goals wouldn’t impact the outcome because the Pats won by a lot? Of course not.  Of course they should forfeit the game.  Plus the fine.  Plus the draft pick(s).   They attempted to affect the outcome of the game by … by cheating.   And that’s exactly what (seems to have/might have) happened here.   Cheating. Upset about the punishment?  Blame the Pats, don’t blame the NFL. Brosef puts a finer point to this:

I have no idea what the punishment will ALL I’M SAYING is that a forfeit has to be on the table.3 And since that’s on the table, they need to make the call fast in case the Colts have to play in the Super Bowl.

And the fact that this is Super Bowl makes it more important that the NFL enforces its rules.  The expedient route is to let it slide and I would guess we’ll just see a fine and a some lost draft picks which would validate the Pats’ calculus cited above.

But it’s not as simplistic as no harm no foul.

The foul is the harm.

Additional notes as they come in.

I’m not going to write more posts on this if I can help. But it’s useful to have a repository of relevant data points as they come in. So I’ll be appending to the post as needs.

1. The following is for everywhere who thinks it’s “no big deal.”

2. More data showing some squirrelly outliers regarding Pats and ball handling.

Click for full story.

Click for full story.

Points one and two raise a likelihood that this is not just one game.

3. A Browns blog goes all jury nullification.
I can kinda get the ‘no big deal, please make it go away’ crowd. Don’t agree with the take, principles matter etc., but I can understand wanting the Super Bowl to be about a football game. I have the same naïve hope every year.

But here is a poll at Dawgs By Nature that is downright frightening.  50% of DBN think no one from Pats altered the balls after the officials checked them.  50%!  From a Browns blog!  No word on the ‘how did 11 of 12 Pats’ balls come to be 20% under-inflated in the first half while the Colts’ balls were fine’ question.

Screen Shot 2015-01-25 at 10.13.49 AM

4. Every caller to Boston sports talk is a DUI lawyer now.
I live in Greater Boston and I get Boston radio in my car. It is unlistenable. But by far the oddest development are the gymnastics employed to concoct a plausible explanation. Were the pressure gauges calibrated? If so when? Where the referees trained in the use of air pressure gauges? Lookit I had a DUI so I get grasping at straws to beat your rap. You’ll gladly pay $5000 for that ‘DUI specialist’ attorney. But there really isn’t sex in the champagne room and your breathalyzer results really were legit and the balls really were two pounds south. All that’s left is someone asking whether there was uneven pavement when the officials were conducting their field sobriety air pressure test.

5. NYDN accomplishes ball boy’s deflation task in under 90 seconds.

NYDN reporter performed the deflation in under 90 seconds, which is the the time a Pats’ ballboy disappeared into a lock-able bathroom with 12 balls.

Importantly, the reporter noticed a significant difference.

Afterwards, I handled the equipment and immediately realized the advantage of softer balls. Even just a pound or two of pressure — which is not easy to detect by just picking up the ball — made them much easier to pass and catch.

  1. It happened to me.  I signed a scorecard and I think I just did the math wrong.  DQ. [back]
  2. Although the Pats were docked a first round pick, Belichick $500K and the Pats $250K. [back]
  3. I know if this were Cheddar, we would convene the Executive Committee probably going to enforce the rules as written.  Because the rules are there to protect the other players. [back]
  • Pingback: Andrew Luck responds to Robert Kraft. - 603brown()

  • mgbode
  • Petefranklin

    Absolutely love the fumble stat! Fumbles are more random than anything which makes the Pats stats even more impossible to achieve.
    No doubt the Pats go down Sunday, along with all the squares who bet them!
    Also, for those interested, my favorite prop bet is no score in the 1st 6:30. It didn’t work out last year but will this year. Both teams will come out conservative and have the big game jitters still not worked out of their bodies for each teams first possession.

  • You know what has even less impact on game play than under-inflated game balls?
    Trading private property for tattoos.

  • CleveLandThatILove

    I would start by making Brady use balls that are over-inflated by 2 psi, leave the roof open and pray for rain, but that’s just me.

  • “I didn’t alter the ball in any way.” — Tom Brady.

    Has anyone anywhere ever thought that Tom Brady is under the stands in Foxboro with one of those old needles letting air out of game balls? Did anyone anywhere ever even ask him that question?

    A little too cute Tom. Just because you can get ESPN to run that quote in the lead paragraph doesn’t mean that 70% of its readers arent like, ‘Ok, a. who did? and b. did you tell someone to?’

  • What the NFL investigation needs to do is to find a former Belichick ballboy who can comment on whether or not BB has actually “learned a lot more about this process in the last three days than I knew or have talked about it in the last 40 years that I have coached in this league.

    • Petefranklin

      EM was my first thought when the shit hit the fan.

  • nj0

    Ah, the Patriots doing their best Sergeant Schultz impersonation.

    The NFL should be example number one that you don’t need to be smart, competent, or business savvy to be a success and make a boatload of money in the USA. (Art can be exhibit 1A). Who knew that the only people who could derail the NFL were the NFL?

    I know a lot of people think this whole thing is stupid; I’m loving it. The ridiculousness has been ratcheted up to 11 this year. After the replacement refs, I didn’t think they could out do themselves, yet they found a way. Tarnishing the integrity of the game itself, putting their biggest cash cow at risk, displaying their endless ineptitude yet again. And all because of under-inflated footballs! It’s a gift! Christmas in January!! What was it Cuban said – pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered.

    • Brady hasn’t been inteviewed yet in this league investigation presumably because they’re busy with the Pro Bowl. So,, yeah.

      • nj0

        I saw a headline on SI earlier this week saying the NFL thinks the investigation is going to take a long time. Cause it’s hard to track down Belichick, Brady, and the Patriots apparently.

        • Remember the MONTHS before Gordon’s punishment was meted out during which time Farmer was in WR limbo, should I get one? how long is out? if at he’s out at all? There’s no excuse for the delay and the waiting porked the Browns.

          Meanwhile the Pats cheat, stonewall, and the NFL drags feet and they all go to the SB.

          Do they think it’s going to get LESS attention during SB week? They really are idiots.

          • nj0

            I feel like there should be some pithy adage about delaying controversial things until people forget about them.

  • After Brady/Belichick’s pressers, there’s one overriding message to the NFL:

    Fuck off. We DARE you to forfeit the game and kick us out of the Super Bowl.

  • AlvaroEspinoza10

    Don’t mean to hijack this thread (OK, I do. This situation is so boring and stupid, and nj0 is completely right), but is everyone else feeling the inevitable Marc Sanchez free agent signing? While he crumbled on a declining post-Mangini Jets team, would he not immediately be the best QB the Browns have had since returning (gulp)?

    — The guy can play and win, including big-stage games, as long as he’s not asked to do too much (2 straight AFC Champ games), which fits nicely with Pettine’s run-first philosophy
    — Obvious Pettine and DeFilippo connection
    — Dealt with NYC media, so could probably easily handle Cleveland/Manziel media
    — And isn’t he the best possible veteran “role model” for Manziel? A guy who came into the NFL already famous, with his own brand and celebrity, who got knocked on his ass. Sanchez is the better college/rookie comparison for Manziel than Tebow, whose hype was mostly religion and projected morality and righteousness… not exactly Manziel’s bag.
    –Sure he’s gonna throw some dumb pics, and we’ve already seen his ceiling, but isn’t the 2-3 year-get-us-to-the-playoffs guy the best case scenario right now?

    Not saying he’s a franchise guy, but isn’t just the better version of Hoyer, the guy that almost got us to the playoffs last year? Same vet presence, but actually has a winning history as a starter, would be CHOOSING to come here and play with Manziel, wouldn’t have to deal with hometown stresses, and would connect with Manziel more easily personality-wise. I get the impression Manziel thought Hoyer was a nerd/dork, and never really respected him much. As dumb as it is, the 21 year old would probably love that Sanchez can party, used to be BMOC, etc.

    Give Sanchez the keys for 2 years, while Browns still have Manziel under contract, and either let Sanchez play and probably reach the playoffs (or at least get to .500+), make Manziel beat him out, and draft some projects this year and next to coach up

    • Pretty sure you’ll be getting all the likes for moving beyond this subject.

      If Pettine and DeFillippo like him and want him, Farmer should get him period end of story. When a HC and OC have seen a guy in practice, in the lockers, around the building on top of the game film that everyone can evaluate,,, and they vouch for him, then yeah, end the search.

  • zarathustra

    NFL Rulebook
    Rule 2 Section 1
    “The Referee shall be the sole judge as to whether all balls offered for play comply with these specifications. A pump is to be furnished by the home club, and the balls shall remain under the supervision of the Referee until they are delivered to the ball attendant just prior to the start of the game.”

    The rule states nothing about the home team being responsible for the proper dimension of the ball. That is explicitly the duty of the referee.
    This is not a case of a rule broken, if anything, this is the failure of the officials to competently uphold the rules. This sadly happens often on Sundays. This is no different.

  • Sam Gold

    I began this piece certain I would disagree with your conclusions. Quite the contrary was the case and I am swayed. And impressed. Well done.

  • nj0

    Mike Tomlin was fined $100K for breaking the NFL rules in a much more egregious way that clearly changed the outcome of the play on the field. The Steelers weren’t punished at all. So I can’t agree. And the golf analogy doesn’t work for me as competitive golf has clearly defined rules and punishments. The NFL (oddly) does not.

    “They attempted to affect the outcome of the game by … by cheating. And that’s exactly what (seems to have/might have) happened here. Cheating.”

    Teams knowingly do this every game. They premeditate it (see: Seattle Seahawks defensive backfield). They weigh possible penalty (pass interference) against the possible gain (winning). And they then break the rules. It’s called gamemanship. And honestly, I’m still not sure what rule the Patriots even broke.

    If there’s an issue here, it’s that the NFL does not know what it is doing. It does not have clearly defined rules. It apparently has never planned for an unforeseen event. This is becoming a trend. For a billion dollar company, the NFL is surprisingly inept.

    • Actually it does have a clearly defined rule in this case. What it doesn’t have is a clearly defined punishment.

      They seem inept but you don’t have to completely cynical to conclude that they are driven by whatever it takes to keep the printing press running. (See the ‘head injury’ penalties.) In this case, part of the NFL’s thinking will center around the disruption caused to hotels and partners (and of course television networks) by dropping Boston for Indy.

      • nj0

        Fair enough. But any lawyer worth his salt would rip that rule to shreds. The Pats gave the balls to the refs to inspect. At that time, they were kosher. If the Pats then later altered those balls (an act that is not explicitly prohibited in the rule book), it is up to the refs to figure that out. And like you said, if that were the case, there’s no explicit penalty.

        Looking at the rules, I guess you could call it a “palpably unfair act” by a “non-player”, but based on the way the rule is written I don’t think this sort of thing is what they have in mind (the rules only allow for an official to call unsporstmanlike conduct for that). I’m actually surprised there isn’t some kind of catch-all “don’t f#ck with the integrity of the game” rule in there. Maybe I just haven’t come across it.

        I hate to hide behind the rulebook like this, but I just don’t see how you can think forfeiting a 30+ point win that sent a team to the Super Bowl is equitable. Especially since the quasi-broken rule probably had minimal (if any) impact on the outcome. Yeah, cheating is cheating and breaking the rules is breaking the rules, but that sort of reasoning can end up with petty thieves getting their hands chopped off.

        • Liked for the rule-book review.
          Not in accord on the margin of victory component.

          • nj0

            Thanks. I really want to agree with you. But like I said… the issue is more the League’s incompetence. I mean – you leave the teams in charge of the game balls? Really? Recipe for disaster.

          • mgbode

            This is old and stale now, but I would like to point out that the only reason that the team’s are in charge of the game balls is that Tom Brady petitioned the league after the 2006 season for such to happen (reportedly to be allowed to scuff the waxy shine off the new balls and the NFL agreed to it).

            did anything significant happen in the 2007 season with the NE passing game? okay, that is purely hindsight narrative, but it is also entertaining.

        • Warburton MacKinnon

          I thought the rule book DOES explcitely say you can not alter the balls after they are inspected and are of regulation pressure,and condition…if this was not the case, then it wouldn’t be cheating nor would the NFL be investigating it at all. Especially when you look at the fact it was a blow out by the end of the game.

          • nj0

            I couldn’t find it.

  • I think it will be almost impossible for the NFL to put down any kind of harsh penalties on the Patriots since it seems unlikely that they can pin intent on anyone of importance. The balls were under inflated, but by who and who knew? Belichick and/or Brady can easily deny they knew anything and have an underling take the fall.

    They can also point to the fact that the officials, one of whom touches the ball on every possession, didn’t question or throw out any of the balls during the second half after they had been alerted that their might be shenanigans going on.

    I agree that it would be nice to see Goodell drop a real penalty on the Pats if found guilty, I just think the journey to that penalty is one that they won’t be able to successfully navigate.

    • I have no doubt that a ballboy will be canned. And I expect a fine (I’ll guess $2M.) and draft picks (I’ll guess a first this year and a second next year.) will be the penalty. While not inconsequential, is it really a deterrent? Maybe. Does it address a pattern of cheating that seems permeate Foxboro? And what if it’s found that the Pats did the same thing in their much tighter game against the Ravens?

      Forfeit is appropriate, but I’m not expecting it.

      • Forfeit would be historic, not sure the NFL is ready for that. Especially after the year they just went through.

        As for the fines and draft picks, the Patriots seem to not care much about picks and Bob Kraft is worth an estimated $4 billion, so any fine will be paid by the equivalent of money he finds in his couch cushions.

      • nj0

        Despite my belief that the Pats didn’t really cheat (or at least cheat that much), I think at this point the NFL has to do something substantial. The Hoodie and Co. have made the NFL look the fool one time too many. And this one won’t just go away. You can’t start messing with the integrity of the game and get away with it. Forfeit is out of the question imo (though I wonder if it would be if the AFCC game was competitive).

        My dream scenario: Belichick is made the fall guy. NFL lobs a year suspension at him plus a hefty fine. The Pats get a token slap on the wrist, a million or two plus a few draft picks, which they happily pay cause who cares when you’re a billionaire with a new Super Bowl trophy. Belichick, on the other hand, doesn’t take it laying down like Sean Payton. “I was planning on retiring tomorrow anyway. Prove I broke your ill-conceived, poorly written rules. Oh, and I’m not part of your CBA so screw off”. Legalistic nightmare follows. Canton burns. Goddell fiddles. Ah…. I can dream.

  • Dave Kolonich

    This may go down as the dumbest sports story of all-time. And the timing is terrible, as now sportswriters will chew this up for two weeks – in a sad attempt to justify their useless jobs.

    • Warburton MacKinnon

      Dumbest story about Pats v Colts totally agree….of all time no(that would be stories about end zone celebrations,the no fun league and fines for various umm gestures). I hope I link this article right,but if not it is on Slate,
      Quick thought exercise,if it had been the Ravens game where this was found to have happened,you know a close game unlike the blowout of the Colts,do you think it would matter more? Do you think anyone but Browns fans(it was the Ravens after all) or Patriot fans would think it didn’t matter? If statisticlly you could show the Patriots since 2007 rule change have an impossibly low number of fumbles would that matter? Have you held a football that is underinflated….if so is it not easier to keep a hold of it,and harder to make you let go of it? I would even say it’s probably harder to throw it right….but if you get it to a reviever it will be easier to catch and hold…and for hand offs the value is probably even higher. What if this is just the only time they got caught?

      • Dave Kolonich

        This is the equivalent of filling dead air on a sports talk radio show. Such a dumb non-story.

        • It’s the BALL. The goddamn game ball Dave.

          in a metaphysical sense,,, it’s not jsut a ‘rules infraction,’ it’s a corruption of the entire GAME. the game is foot BALL. Ball. Ball. Ball.

          Name me one sport where a player or team can use a ball that’s outside the specs of what their competitors use. You can’t because there isn’t one. Name me another sport where a player or team wouldn’t be either DQ’d or forfeit if they’re tweaking the game ball out of spec. You can’t because there isn’t one.

          It’s base cheating. Could. not. be. more. base.

          The penalty for cheating is and always has been: you lose. Harsh? Exactly. Message? Don’t cheat. Simple.

          And 50% or more of people are like no-biggie. Now that’s sad. That’s the biggest story actually and that’s as good an indictment of our current society as I’ve seen. More than 50% of Americans don’t care if you cheat; 90% of Bostonians. Think about that.

          • Dave Kolonich

            I know I’m usually in the minority on group think, but I’m not swayed even an inch. If this wasn’t the Patriots and there weren’t two weeks of dead air to fill, this wouldn’t even be a story. The ball inflated or deflated or whatever had ZERO bearing on the outcome of that game.

            I haven’t paid much attention to this, but I have seen a couple instances of people throwing out “integrity” as it relates to the NFL – followed by a shot of Goodell.

            Anyway, I expect big dumb national outlets to drone on about this, but really good blogs too?

          • As far as groupthink, I believe only Brosef and I are out there on the forfeit train.

            I can only speak for myself on whether the Pats history has a bearing on my view and I tell you it does not. I outlined as much above where I note the Pats’ past grievances and share that none of them bothered me.

            What you have is one team with balls that are easier to throw and catch while the other team plays by the rules and with harder to handle balls. How that patent unfairness is not a big deal to so many is baffling.

            And then, putting aside the real play-ability aspect, it’s a simple matter of principles. The principle is fair play, it’s fundamental to football, sports, and really the maintenance of a civilized society.

            I have a hard time thinking of a more binary right/wrong question.

          • Dave Kolonich

            The “patent unfairness” lies in how overmatched the Colts were as a playoff team. The Pats could have used rugby balls and the outcome wouldn’t have differed much.

            DEAD issue.

            And one that the Pats weren’t the first to exploit. It’s so naive to think otherwise, yet here we are.

          • Warburton MacKinnon

            This is kinda why this isn’t as big a thing as it could be…the Colts were way outclassed and outplayed…like I said earlier in the discussion if this had been the Ravens game it would have more traction,because it was a close game and not a blowout by the end(full disclosure on my part,I don’t care how anyone beats the Ravens I just want them to lose….so I would not have said shit against the Pats had it been found out at that game). Thing is no matter what, IF you have the nuts to do this in a confrence championship have been doing it a while already(trying really hard to avoid low hanging ball jokes).
            This is not something you pull out of your bag of tricks only when it can get you to the super bowl,and against a team you regularly destroy…and destroyed even when Manning was the QB. I guess my main point is they(and yes probably others,it was a joint Brady-Manning request that led to the rule change allow this to ever happen,and lead to any advantage). So I would think it’s been ongoing for 7 years at least…and again sure they are not the only ones doing it but they got CAUGHT,11 out of 12 balls is on purpose,and is cheating,and cheating should always be punished when it is caught,otherwise why would someone stop cheating if there is absolutely no penalty for doing so?(honest question). Granted if you don’t get caught,I guess I can live with that as it is how life is. Still getting caught cheating and nothing happens why follow the rules,and are there actual rules anymore?

        • Petefranklin

          If it is truly such a non story then why do Bill and Tom have to lie their way out of it? I mean if you can’t see that they are so full of shit then you may be rusting up.

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