At 26, Browns select… #KRM

NCAA Football: New Mexico at Fresno State

In the #KRM, Browns get their QB.

When I was ramping up the Kanick Reader Mock, of course I invited friend and reigning Cheddar Bay champion Frowns.  He’s obviously been busy, but his polite decline was more centered on his casual acquaintance with the draft prospects and maybe others would offer better insights.

Frowns and Chuck

Back at Revere HS, who would’ve predicted these two would achieve the greatness embodied in their Cheddar payouts? (Click to enlarge.)

The disappointment of Peter’s decline was countered when I heard from reigning Cheddar Bay runner-up ChuckKoz after the KRM had started saying he’s game to take a pick.  As the top-ranked Cheddar, I thought it fitting to give him the Browns and he accepted.  Better him than me.  I think this pick is a bitch now that the top cornerbacks1 are off the board. So let’s dig in. With the 26th pick, the Cleveland Browns select:


I, temporary GM of the Browns, just drafted Clowney.  He may not be a “need” position, but he is a beast so we could not pass.  Nonetheless, I am going to start my analysis with my needs, then make my pick balancing need and my long-term projections.  So,

My view of need….

Quarterback:  I am committed to drafting a QB that I think can be a legitimate starter in the NFL.  I am also committed to Hoyer for next year, so I guess its okay if we go in a different direction for this pick, but we must do something by the 3rd round.

LEADING CANDIDATE:  Derek Carr

O-Line:  I am really sick of how bad Mitchell Schwartz has been and am a good alternative away from cutting him.  And we cannot rely on Pinkston or this new guy from Seattle at guard.  With Mack, Thomas, and Greco locked in, I just assume get the best linemen available to start immediately and let these other scraps fill in the final starter slot.

LEADING CANDIDATE:  Xavier Su’a Filo (OG)

Star+Lotulelei+Xavier+Su+Filo+Utah+v+UCLA+QuoLlcRzNj4l

That’s Star Lotulelei XSF is holding his ground on.

Wide out:  Hawkins is probably not a #2 starter.  But with Gordon and Cameron, #3 guys should be able to look that much more impressive.  Add in Burleson and a last shot/drop for Little and this position is not freaking me out as much as others indicate.  Nonetheless, I fully realize the league we are in and the fact that Little may get cut before the season after dropping a key ball in the GLC.  Hence, we need another guy.

CANDIDATE:  Odell Beckham

ILB:  There is no reason to have a ton of confidence in Craig Robertson and even if I was sold on him, I am not totally sure what I got in Dansby past one or two years, so this is an area that needs addressed.

CANDIDATE:  CJ Mosely

Safety:  While Gibson is a nice story for an undrafted guy, he probably is not going to be starting for any division winning football teams.  Couple the fact that Whitner has some deficiencies against the pass and I sure would like to get someone that can play next year from this draft.

CANDIDATE:  N/A – Nobody for this slot, perhaps look at in later rounds

Cornerback:  I know many people have this as a higher priority, but I really liked what I saw from Skrine after about week 4.  Sure, a quality upgrade would be nice (the Revis talk was fun), but I see Skrine being able to do the job and continue to improve (note: September 2013 me cannot believe these words). Nonetheless, bringing another CB to will allow Skrine perhaps to move around and possibly deal with some concerns we have a safety.

CANDIDATE:  N/A – We really wanted Roby.  He was snagged just before us, so we are going to look here later.

K:  Yeah, we need a kicker.  Hopefully we have one on the week prior to the opener, unlike 2013, but I cannot imagine taking one at this point.

5067ce3063198.image

Is the delta between Beckham and, say, Moncrief or Matthews that great?

THE RUNNER UPS

Xavier Su’a Filo, OG:  I really like this guy.  He was the leader of a UCLA line that had a big time running game the past two years.  And the reason I have him edging out OT Cyrus Kouandjio is that he has demonstrated a level of consistency and maturity (guys that came back from a Mormon mission tend to not be off-the-field problems). Kouandjio could be a homerun, but could bust.  However, there appears no way, sans injury, Su’a Filo does anything short of being a long-term starting guard in the NFL.  Filling in a guard for the next 10 years is such an incredible concept that this franchise has tried and failed over and over, so solving it would be something special, especially since my new team/coach plan on having an offense that stresses the run.

Odell Beckham, WR:  He is the top guy on my board at this point, but nothing jumps out at me.  Average college numbers, albeit at LSU, good size/speed but he is inferior to the prior WRs drafted.  I know everyone says there are so many great WRs in this draft, but I don’t accept this concept of all these guys being worth first round.  And if its so deep, hopefully we can snag a guy later.

CJ Mosely, ILB:  The reality is, we just drafted Clowney and we just invested heavily in Dansby.  Defensive needs will likely have to wait.


Derek Carr

Everyone settle… I’m learning from Hoyer at first.

THE PICK

Derek Carr, QB:  Truth be told, I made up all sorts of terrible things about Bridgewater, hoping he would fall here, but it didn’t happen.  With the biggest three names gone, I am feeling desperate.  I don’t know if I can wait until the second or third round and draft that immobile injured SEC guy Mettenberger.2 The worst part of all is that I just saw this franchise make this type of perceived reach with Brandon Weeden, so I do fear this is a major risk.  Nonetheless, we really do like Derek and always have, which is why he was one of our first choices to bring in to Berea and have a private workout with.  We had him as our #1 QB until he struggled mightily in his bowl game.  Still, he has the size and strength necessary for the NFL (gulp, so did Weeden), with a body of work in college that demonstrates an ability to run a pro style offense while in college.

And even if he fails, he won’t be as bad as Weeden.  #progress


Pretty good analysis.  I don’t think anyone would be disappointed with Jadeveon Clowney and Derek Carr in the first round.  No really, I don’t ANYONE would be disappointed and I know how incredible that sounds.  By the way, yes every picker here is a Browns fan but this really was not a rigged homer mock.  The chips fell where they fell.

Speaking of falling chips, Tom from RR88 is on the clock for the Saints.
Pick #TeamSelection
(linked to KRM post)
Reader
1TexansBlake Bortlesjpftribe
2RamsGreg RobinsonDave Kolonich
3JaguarsSammy WatkinsClevTA
4BrownsJadeveon ClowneyZarathustra
5RaidersKhalil MackPete Franklin
6FalconsJake MatthewsOXR
7BucsJohnny ManzielPeterM
8VikingsTeddy Bridgewatertrashycamaro
9BillsTaylor Lewanclay
10LionsHa’Sean Clinton-Dixbluedog93
11TitansAnthony Barrkanick
12GiantsEric EbronRod of Disaster
13RamsMike EvansMatt Borcas
14BearsAaron DonaldJRich
15SteelersDarqueze Dennard tmoore94
16CowboysLouis NixGrandRapidsRustlers
17RavensJustin GilbertMGBode
18JetsBrandin CooksZarathustra
19DolphinsZack Martintrashycamaro
20CardinalsCalvin PryorJRich
21PackersJace AmaroClevTA
22EaglesMarqise LeeGrandRapidsRustlers
23ChiefsRa'Shede Hagemanclay
24BengalsBradley RobyOXR
25ChargersKyle Fullertexinottawa
26BrownsDerek CarrChuckKoz
27SaintsOdell Beckham tmoore94
28PanthersXavier Su'a-Filojpftribe
29PatriotsTimmy Jerniganbluedog93
30NinersJason VerrettRod of Disaster
31BroncosCJ MosleyPete Franklin
32SeahawksCameron FlemingDave Kolonich
33 (2nd rd)TexansTroy NiklasMatt Borcas
34RedskinsStephon Tuittkanick
35BrownsRyan ShazierMGBode
36Raiders
  1. No offense Jason Verrett.  But.  5’9″. [back]
  2. Or Murray. [back]

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  • humboldt

    I look at David Carr and see Jimmy Clausen

    • bupalos

      I look at David Carr and wish I saw Jimmy Clausen.

      • i know you mean derek carr but geez, david carr was only the #1 overall pick in 2002. not his fault that it was for a first-year expansion team without an o-line and whose primary receiver was jabar gaffney.

        i mean really, here’s david carr’s o-line in 2002:
        rt ryan young; rg fred weary; c steve mckinney; lg demingo graham; and at the all-important left tackle, rookie chester pitts.

        the receiving targets: corey bradford, (rook) jabar gaffney, (rook) jabari holloway. rb: (rook) jonathan wells.

        cmon son. david carr’s lackluster career starts with his supporting casts.

        if we should happen to draft derek carr, i think we would be very pleased if he has the talent of david carr.

        • humboldt

          It’s a travesty that the Browns didn’t have a lineman named “Fred Weary” during the early expansion era – he sounds like an early rounds character in Mike Tyson’s Punchout.

          I would submit that the Browns’ best bad lineman name has been Orlando Bobo, with Enoch DeMar a close second.

    • did you know david carr’s 76 sacks in his rookie year is the most ever in the nfl?
      http://pfref.com/tiny/3du7I

      i’m not sure he gets a fair shake.

      • humboldt

        I’m sure you’re right about this. It’s a credit to Carr that he bounced around the NFL for so long – you don’t do that unless you’ve got physical skills and a good mind for the game.

        That said, I worry about the genetic determinism inherent in making extrapolations between brothers. For every Peyton-Eli Manning there’s a dozen Carson-Jordan Palmer’s and Ty and Koy Detmer’s.

  • bupalos

    Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

  • CLEVTA

    For some reason the charts I reference below didn’t show up so here’s the link to the rotoworld article and you can see for yourself http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/45952/349/2014s-quarterback-conundrum

  • CLEVTA

    You guys forced me into this. My anti Carr argument. I had the same exact thoughts/feelings/displeasure, etc, etc with Weeden prior to the 2012 draft as I do for Carr. It’s actually eerie to be honest.
    First please ignore all those gaudy stats Carr tossed up in that offense against garbage competition. They are irrelevant. Focus on these a little more. In 3 years as a starter and in games against only ranked competition (Nebraska, Boise 2x, Oregon) and two bowl appearances (SMU & USC) here are Mr Carr’s numbers in aggregate: 58% completion, 5.4 ypa, 6 tds, 5 int. Oh by the way Fresno went 0-6 in those games. I watched both bowl games and what stood out the most was when Carr faced pressure. He was jittery and downright awful.
    Swayed even a little? Probably not yet. I did some more digging. We all know he played in a gimmick offense but Rotoworld charted every throw from the QBs in this draft class and here’s what they came up:

    Carr threw an astonishing 60% of his throws <5 yards! The average QB in this class threw 47% of their passes <5. He also only tossed the ball 20+ yards 11.3% of the time.
    Ok how about this one:

    This chart shows the accuracy % when adjusted for drops. The colors represent how that QB fared in accuracy against the average QB. Green is good, red is bad. Well, Carr fares poorly in 2 of the 5 categories (1-5 yards and 20+) and mediocre in one (11-20 yds). The reason Carr's overall completion percentage is still so high despite this chart is because 33% of this throws are screens where he he is most accurate. In other words he is great at throwing the easiest pass known to man. His 44% accuracy in the deep ball is worrisome to say the least, nevermind he has a strong arm. What's even more disconcerning is how poorly he fared in the 1-5 yard range. So he stinks at throwing deep and on check down type throws. Uh oh. (an aside, look how well Teddy fared in his accuracy vs the rest of the QBS. Doesn't rank poorly in any category and is way above average in 3 of the 5).

    Anything yet? Ok there's more. Here's the smoking gun.

    This chart shows each of the QBs when facing pressure. To me this is the most important chart for any QB entering the draft. If you can't throw against pressure/blitz, there's no way you can do well in the pros. What we see above is what I saw with my very eyes when Carr played SMU and USC. He is AWFUL when facing pressure. His completion percentage is a staggering 50% when facinf pressure and a mediocre 69% against the blitz. In fact, Carr's 50% completion percentage against pressure is dead last amongst the top 8 QBs in this draft, charted by Rotowire. As another aside, look how awesome Teddy is vs the blitz. He destroys teams that try and blitz him. Can you tell how much I love Teddy vs Carr?? Hey look, when Carr has all day to throw against crappy MWC competition then sure he can tear you apart. That is the SAME EXACT thing you could say about Weeden in the Ok St offense his final year. You know what got me to hate Weeden so much pre draft? It was when I took Iowa St +21(?) on a Friday night in Weeden's final season, when the Cyclones pressured up the middle and Weeden looked like he had never seen a pass rush before. He threw 3 picks in that game and they lost outright. Here is a tweet from me in April 2012 on my fears with Weeden. It's eerily similar to Carr's struggles https://twitter.com/clevta/status/197117511261634560

    Finally, I'm going back to my favorite prediction machine article on this QB class (http://predictionmachine.com/nfl-draft-2014-top-5-quarterbacks-bridgewater-murray-mccarron). Carr's completion percentage by down: 1st- 73.9%, 2nd- 67.7%, 3rd- 58.2% (uh oh). "For his career, Carr has the lowest third-down completion rate of any of the draft-eligible quarterbacks." "His inability to work the middle of the field and accurately challenge
    defenses will hurt him in the NFL. Statistically and scouting-wise, he
    compares to Mark Sanchez."

    Please, please, please I am begging you as a Browns fan, do not buy into this hype. Most importantly don't allow this woman to be correct

    Oh for the love of everything MT @NFL_AM: Thanks for joining us @MaryKayCabot! She says the @Browns will go with Derek Car for the #4 pick— TA (@ClevTA) March 28, 2014

    • maxfnmloans

      like x 1,000,000. And MKC is embarrassing. I wish NFL network would call someone else. Whenever she is on, I cringe

      • Problem is, if they don’t call her they would probably call Grossi as they are apparently the only 2 people in the entirety of NE Ohio who cover the Browns.

        • humboldt

          Grossi certainly isn’t rigorous in his reporting, but he is about 10,000x more insightful than Mary Kay

          • jpftribe

            Agreed, but that is like saying your honda is faster than your ten speed as Jeff Gordon whizzes by in the Number 24.

      • i called out florio on this once and he actually replied to my tweet and informed me that MKC was very smart and that i must be very dumb.

        so, there’s that.

        • maxfnmloans

          yes, I can see an alternate reality where MKC is actually just pulling an Andy Kaufman on us…her PD & Twitter persona is her version of Latka. In reality, her football acumen is on par with Belichik and Bill Walsh

          …and then I stop eating mushrooms

    • i see all this but every damn quarterback has baggage. this is the 26th pick not the fourth. you’re taking a chance with any QB, better to take the chance here versus an obvious over-drafting at #4 of some of the hyped QBs who are known to be crapping the beds in the their workouts.

      mkc is an idiot and no one here is suggesting carr at #4.

      i think chuck’s rationale on why carr here (4 CBs off the board; beckham just meh, can find guard later, already invested in ILB) makes a lot of sense.

      • maxfnmloans

        the rationale is sound. Just please God let him be wrong.

      • Bluedog93

        There are a lot of different kinds of baggage: not a strong enough arm, not mobile enough, inexperienced, poor record in big games, lacks touch, lacks accuracy, and so on and so on. It seems like the Browns have experimented with every kind.

        I’ve waivered on which is the worst kind of baggage in the past, but especially after The Brandon Weeden Experience, I’ve come around to “can’t handle pressure” as my insurmountable baggage. ClevTA’s monster response above is persuasive to me on this point. The thinking has been that you might be able to teach a guy how to handle pressure but you can’t teach him how to throw a deep-out if he doesn’t have the arm strength; I’ve come around to the point of view that you can no more teach poise than you can teach arm strength once a guy has reached the NFL. (Think Moneyball and how Billy Beane couldn’t get his free swingers to take pitches and had more success drafting or signing guys who were patient at the plate). I’d rather take all the deep throws out of the playbook than take out all the plays that require the QB to make good reads under pressure, because if you take those out you have nothing left. And if this is Carr, I’ll pass.

        (That isn’t to say that Farmer et al will agree with me or that there’s anything I disagree with in the original post — another good bit of analysis).

    • Petefranklin

      Nice insight. I love the Mountain West, but it was a totally down year for the conference. And the MW defenses? Well lets just say you probably won’t see any MW defensive guys drafted on the first two days.

    • bupalos

      This times 16 billion and sixty six. There are only 3 quarterbacks that I’ve actually done my version of ‘praying’ that the Browns don’t draft. Tannehill at 4, Weeden at 22, and Carr at 26. Tannehill just because that’s way too high for him, Weeden and Carr because they don’t have football brains and probably won’t be able to stay in the league. Ta is exactly right here, and everything he is citing adds up to that. Absolutely no evidence of a football brain. Exactly like Weeden. Same scripted offense. Same reaction to pressure. Same nothingburger. I don’t want him at any point before the 5th round. He has formal accuracy and arm strength that is meaningless because the ball is usually late on anything not totally scripted. MEANINGLESS NUMBERS. You can watch the ranked games where he just looks as bad as any quarterback likely to go undrafted, or the patsy games, where literally 30% of the throws are flanker screens. The downfield stuff that is caught is often just a talent disparity at WR.

    • actovegin1armstrong

      You sold me TA.
      How about, 4th, Mack or Matthews
      for 26th Verrett, Jimmy Ward or Roby?

      Then Mettenberger, Garappolo, or Murray in rd 3 or lower, whomever drops.

      • bupalos

        I’d be delighted with that.

    • ChuckKoz

      here is another troubling parallel, if i were a GM, i would basically be just be just like Holmgren: drinking and smoking while going around on a golf cart.

      that is how we end up with Weeden.

      Nonetheless, in spite of all that ugly/actual analysis, I would still take him if he is here. They can’t not draft a QB. And the drop off is going to be pretty steep after Carr/Garappolo (both who could be worthless).

  • maxfnmloans

    No Derek Carr unless he shows up on ESPN tossing footballs at clay pigeons.

    The good news is since things never play out how you plan, we are assured this will never happen. When OK St. played Stanford in the 2012 Fiesta Bowl, Weeden handled pressure much more effectively than Carr did against USC (for comparison, 2011 STAN gave up 21.9 ppg, mostly in the Pac 12; 2013 USC gave up 21.2 ppg, also in Pac 12).

    One game does not a career make, but the Weeden wounds are just too fresh. I can’t handle any “deer in the headlights” nor am I in a hurry to spend a first round pick on someone who we hope doesn’t play this year.

  • Bluedog93

    I wouldn’t be crazy about spending the 26th pick in the draft on the fourth-best QB available no matter who that person was. That being said, if the front office believes in Carr and the draft goes the way this one does (namely, with Jacksonville still needing a quarterback after having drafted Watkins), yeah, I can see this as the decision since they may not want to wait for 35 to find a guy.

  • CLEVTA

    No no no no no no no no no no no no no

  • actovegin1armstrong

    I would like to have Clowney and Carr as the Browns’ two picks. However if Clowney is still on the board at four, perhaps it would be time for a trade down then the Browns may end up with Carr, Verrett and Kyle Van Noy out of those two picks.

  • Talked me into it.

    I really liked Derek Carr in 2012 and thought he was being overlooked in the QB chat. Last year, I expected more from Fresno and was pretty disappointed with them from game one (yes i sure did lose betting Fresno vs Rutgers in Cheddar in week one).
    DeRuyter’s offense is a tad gimmicky and so Carr looked unimpressive (to my eye) while racking up huge numbers (that need to be discounted due to gimmicky offense). But even taking that into account he’s got the build, can make all the throws, and you know what a gimmicky no-huddle fast-paced offense teaches? Fast reads and decisions and releases. It’s probably the biggest strength of Manning and Brady and Rodgers.

    So yeah, if the draft plays out like this, Carr is a pick that works for me.

    • CLEVTA

      “But even taking that into account he’s got the build, can make all the
      throws, and you know what a gimmicky no-huddle fast-paced offense
      teaches? Fast reads and decisions and releases” ahem Weeden

      • you lost me with the weeden compares and particularly when you say suggest weeden came into the draft with a good rep for quick decision-making.
        http://youtu.be/L_-gyV84JpQ

        • bupalos

          No that was EXACTLY what people were saying. The reality was it was just scripted. The parallel to Carr is uncanny.

          Let’s have a hater bet. I don’t think either Bridgewater or Carr ends up on the Browns, but I’ll bet you pretty much whatever you want to bet that 2 years in Carr will be a lower value asset. Because you can’t sink below zero.

          • other than MKC, is anyone saying carr is the top QB in the draft? not really. but lots of people have bridgewater as the top qb and some as the top player in the draft. THAT is my problem with bridgewater.

            i’m not in love with carr the way you and TA are with bridgewater. but at 26 and with the board looking as it does, it don’t think it’s a crazy or crippling bet to make here. bridgewater at four is crazy and crippling.

          • bupalos

            Bridgewater at 4 (which I’m not comfortable with) is a WAY better pick than Carr at 26, but thanks to pro-day madness, a lot of the mocks have these guys about even or Carr a dozen slots behind at worst. You wanted Bridgewater off your board and think Carr is a 1st rounder. I want Carr last day, and think Bridgewater is a 1st rounder. So the bet would be pretty even, but I’d even give you some adjustment if you want since almost everyone in their right mind does think Teddy’s the better prospect. I meant the bet seriously. Say $200, judged by the board New Years Day, 2016.

          • there is no justification for taking a quarterback at #4 who didn’t throw at the combine and threw poorly at his pro day and continues to throw badly in private workouts.

            https://twitter.com/evansilva/status/454709703692414976

            QBs need to throw well. bridgewater seems to have a problem.

            it’s not just me-kanick saying this is a problem. it’s teams who work him out. it’s espn draft shills who hardly ever saying anything bad about a prospect, let alone a black qb. but there were mcshay and jaworski (note how uncomfortable the anchor is that they would speak honestly on this topic!): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MP7vv–ylwU

            anyway, to assert he is a WAY better pick at 4 than carr at 26 leaves us with an irreconcilable difference.

          • bupalos

            Indeed, which is why we must bet. The only other option for us is a duel, and I doubt you even have a dueling pistol.

            wait…I forgot about jousting.

          • actovegin1armstrong

            I want in on the bet against Bildewater.
            I would also prefer a boxing or wrestling match if we choose not to bet.
            (As long as we do not have a weigh-in.)

          • bupalos

            I can’t let you bet against Bridgey. You are too often correct and if you are allowed to bet that will cause me to lose. You are allowed to bet on Carr if you want, he’s so completely irremediable that not even The Acto Bump can save him.

          • jpftribe

            I have a line on some great horses in the south of Surrey…….

          • would look like this scene except with two Ser Loras Tyrells.
            http://youtu.be/UcnFPp2mFoc

          • CLEVTA

            That’s misinformation from Mort about Teddy workouts, at least according to his agent. In fact Mort said he had been performing poorly in his multiple workouts when he only had one at the time. I mean is it so inconceivable that a team or teams are intentionally leaking that Teddy is performing poorly so he drops? Who knows but I wouldn’t take that as gospel.

            Bridgewater’s agent, Kennard McGuire, very politely refuted Mortensen’s claim. “I have a tremendous amount of respect for journalists who work in this new age of media,” McGuire told PFT via email. “While I am certain this statement wasn’t intended to be misleading, it is my duty to remove and eliminate any doubt. Teddy has visited multiple teams with more workouts and visits coming in the near future. The assessment we received FROM THE ONE WORKOUT was ‘simply amazing and sharp,’ and we expect nothing short or less than stellar in the upcoming workouts in the very near future.”

          • bupalos

            >>>QBs need to throw well. bridgewater seems to have a problem.>>>

            Correction, Qb’s need to throw well IN GAMES, UNDER PRESSURE. Which is what Mr. Teddy does.

          • i dont want to bet on carr.

            but i’ll bet you $200 bridgewater is not a starting qb in the nfl on new years day 2016.

            ***
            even this bet misses the point. the easy narrative has been the ‘big 3’ qbs. you and TA and kiper and others continue to rate bridgewater tops when the facts are that he has not held up under scrutiny. my main issue is with those who keep jamming teddy down my throat when i can see that his small hands and slow 40 and fluttery outside-the-numbers-passes should rank him closer to david fales than blake bortles.

            and david fales may be the next nick foles. just saying please stop telling me that bridgewater is a top 5 pick when his workouts .. well you get my point.

          • bupalos

            As long as you’re not fishing to turn me into Shylock and catch me out on some Portia-esque technicality, I think I might take that. Can’t be because he was th starter but got injured, or because Minnesota doesn’t play on NYD….

          • hm. i’ll accept two consecutive postings as #1 QB on the ourlads depth chart. (sample.) from the archives it looks like they come out monthly.

          • bupalos

            That sounds good. I’ll take that. But I really want to bet against carr more than on teddy, just like you. So how about 100 on that, and 100 where you get carr (who you’re ok with late 1st) and I get my choice of any quarterback drafted later than him.

          • aiyeee. ok.
            (now i’m in that uncomfortable place of rooting for carr to go to the bengals when i know full well that’s going to put cincy over the top.)

          • bupalos

            Well, at least we’ll both be rooting for that since I know full well that means an extra 19 interceptions for Haden. On top of the 63 he’d already get from the current reigning Ginger Cringer.

          • jpftribe

            I would bet on the pro level, with the exception of the Raiders, Tampa, Vikings and maybe Jags, you are correct here. Let’s hope Farmer separates himself from the aforementioned pack.

          • jpftribe

            Sorry, the HC was talking there. Substitute the Titans for Tampa, Lovie could care less about QB’s.

          • actovegin1armstrong

            Bret Easton Ellis may have a bit of a difference with you on that Bupa.
            I may take that bet Bupa, when Bilgewater was unprepared for the most important day of his career it scared me away. He also had a Wunderlich score almost less than zero. I am the dummest guy I know and I went far beyond doubling his score. That is rather frightening. How did Carr do?

          • bupalos

            You know I love you Acto but you are a Psycho.

          • actovegin1armstrong

            I would hope that this is not new information for you Bupa, this is simply general knowledge.

        • actovegin1armstrong

          I was at that game, right behind that play, it happened of course, but he also made some really great throws, (notice the score). Weeden showed off some high velocity, well placed throws against the most talented secondary in the conference, if not all of college football. He was lighting up DBU!
          He can play QB and in the right system with a solid O-line, he could be good.

    • Matt Borcas

      Kanick, if your bullishness on Jake Matthews is due in part to his impressive bloodlines, shouldn’t we penalize Carr for sharing so many genes with one of the bigger QB busts in draft history? Just a thought. (And yes, I realize David Carr’s o-line didn’t do him any favors, but he still sucked.)

      • Petefranklin

        Couch gets called a bust, but I thought he was much better than Carr.

      • 22 pro bowls and 611 games started in the nfl by matthews’ immediate family. there’s no good precedent for what bruce and clay did; add on clay jr (and hell even casey is on a roster) and i just think it makes jake matthews as sure a thing as a draft pick ever has been.

        if you’re curious, here’s a pdf of brothers in the nfl. i mean terry bradshaw’s brother played qb too… doesn’t mean terry sucked. randall cunningham, tony eason, matt hasselbeck, carson palmer all had brothers who played qb and didn’t go anywhere. it’s not a disqualifier.

      • ps, see comment above about “david carr, bust.” it’s like calling tim couch a bust. one player by himself cannot determine the outcome of an 11 man team.

        i think tom brady wouldve busted if he was the starter for the 2002 texans.

    • mgbode

      See Carr v. usc or Utah State. He was bad against decent defenses faced or any sort of pressure.