Clearing the decks, six-pack.


Oh that Steelers game…

More decks to clear and opening it up for a convo down below.

1.  Banner/Lombardi.

No fresh perspectives here at Kanick on the Banner/Lombardi story; nothing that hasn’t been said before.  Here’s 27 posts from our “Browns punt 2013” category.  Enjoy.

Peter King does a nice job describing the behind-the-scenes action that led to the bad Chud firing and then, karmic-ly, to Banner/Lombardi’s dismissal.  Jason La Canfora is peculiarly tweaked that Banner/Lombardi have been let go; no word from La Canfora on whether he wants to retract his equally wrong hatchet job on the GM who drafted four of the six Browns Pro-Bowlers.

Just be sure to delineate what is the result of the men now calling the shots there, and how much they are paying for the misdeeds of those who came before them.

Hahaha… ok Jason.  Banner/Lombardi brought in Kruger-Bryant-Bess; Heckert drafted Cameron-Ward-Haden-Gordon.  Your move.

Overall, I’m feeling good that a guy who was effectively our top scout last year is now in charge of our draft and free agency.  At the same time, a little squirrelly about everyone reporting to Jimmy.  More on these subjects to be sure in the upcoming days/weeks.

1a.  Sulky Banner.

Ok, this is a pretty funny scene.  Apparently Banner didn’t want to talk to Schiano, Banner did, and awkwardness ensued.  From the King article:

Banner wanted nothing to do with Schiano. Haslam was intrigued with him after the over-the-top recommendation from Belichick. The group flew to Tampa to interview Schiano, and one source said Banner was cold to Schiano, not participating much in the interview.

Haha.  Wonder what that private jet home was like.  Pretty quiet I’m guessing.

2.  On Michael Sam.


Kony Ealy and you know who.

This thing is going to be done to death.  My main concern is that the ‘hot-take saturation point’ will be reached and then the story will tuned out.  It’s a nice step forward.  We’ll know real progress has been made when this is not a big deal.

That being said… here is my hot take:  Michael Sam was invisible in the the biggest games vs. Texas AM and vs. Auburn.  I linked you the defensive box scores, but mainly I’m going by my eyes.  Sam had some gaudy stats coming into those games and really wasn’t a factor, at least not one I noticed.

Kony Ealy, on the other hand….

3.  Talk about a logo/mascot in need of a re-think.


Celebrating 19th century South Carolina.

Ever stop and think about the South Carolina Gamecocks.

Your mascot is a blood-sport?  Really?  This is a problem because it turns out cockfighting is still a problem.

To be sure, South Carolina has a tradition associated with cockfighting but perpetuating 19th century South Carolina traditions seems a dicey gambit.  Not sure that cuts it.  I doubt that anyone would be cool with Dogfighters or Bearbaiters for nicknames.

Something to think about next time you see good ol’ Cocky on a CapitalOne commercial.

4. Mingo at Safety.

I’m going to come back to this one, but remember you heard it here first when we draft Clowney.  (Sorry Acto.)

5.  AP’s All-Pro voting method is horrible.

Good article on the farcical nature of All-Pro voting.  It turns out everyone votes for the top player at a position and whoever finishes second is second team.  Shouldn’t the voters be selecting a second team also?

6.  Free Incognito.

Screen Shot 2014-02-12 at 4.59.44 PM

Bro, can we talk?

In spite of plenty of Dolphins players who spoke out on behalf of Incognito (Here’s one.) there was an over-the-top rush to judgement when the Incognito/Martin story broke.  Now that the texts are seen in full context there has not been a corresponding rush-to-apologize to the guy who lost his job to a pretty unfair process and a fair bit of mob-rule.

This is a piece that seems like it needs a lot of research and linking to do it thoroughly.  But really, here.  That’s the 1000+ texts between Incognito and Martin.  Context.  Also important contextually-speaking is that Martin’s mom is an employment law litigator.  But maybe not a wise one.  Perhaps she thought Incognito didn’t have access to all the texts back-and-forth but it seems she or whoever advised Martin blew it.

Jonathan Martin has problems, obviously, as he checked himself into a mental health facility.  It would seem that his problems pre-date his interactions with Incognito.1  Scapegoating Incognito is not the way to get better.

Screen Shot 2014-02-12 at 9.05.01 PM

It’s okay to be wrong but there should be some contrition.  Harm was done to Richie Incognito.  Leaving Martin aside, the NFL and the Dolphins and the internet-at-large should be doing more to make it right.  This hasn’t happened.  It’s a shame.


  1. At one point Martin was projected as a top-10 pick.  Link.  Link.  In the end, and after many meetings with teams, he went mid second round drafted by a team who did not interview him.  “… prime candidate to be considerably overdrafted.” [back]
  • Dan

    Okay Kanicki, I have to call you out on the Incognito thing. This thing with Incognito and Martin is ultimately not about text messages, but about bullying. This whole thing erupted because Martin could not handle the bullying from his teammates (not just Incognito admittedly) and reacted. This did not start because some text messages were leaked out of context. The text messages are less cringe worthy when put into context with the rest of the texts, but they do not tell the whole story, and revealing all of the texts does not completely vilify Incognito. They seem to be mostly about going out at night, or making plans, basically what we all use texts for. The real evidence comes from the investigation into the everyday interactions of both Martin and Incognito, and that investigation has revealed that Incognito did in fact bully Martin,

    Also, your support article is from a player not in the locker room since August of 2012, and the entire text message string starts in October, 2012, so the teammate who was supporting Incognito was not even there for the time we are talking about.

    Finally, as a person who has battled with depression and bullying in the past, I take issue with your put down and victim blaming of Martin. To suggest that Martin has some sort of mental issue making him a ticking time bomb, and this is why people didn’t draft him so high is also ingenuine, considering he did not perform at the combine, and his pro day was underwhelming (taken from your link)). Indeed, the texts to his parents recently released seem to reveal that he was a hyper-sensitive kid, probably an introvert, who was not good with confrontation. These are hardly “problems” as you put it. His texts to his family reveal much what I have gone through in the past. Hyper sensitive people and introverts are pretty common occurrences that are pretty significantly misunderstood. You don’t like confrontation and you are shy, so you are targeted, but you do not want to speak up because you know it will only add on to the ridicule. So you try to go along with it, be the but of the joke, but its killing you inside. You feel trapped. All of this weighs on you mentally, until you are no longer able to take it. As such, I would see Martin’s need to check into a mental institution more a result of the ridicule he faced from his teammates than any “problems” you claim he had before he came to Miami.

    I would hope you do more research on hypersensitivity and introverts before out and out blaming a guy for not being the quintessential jock.

    • the article was an eyewitness account. other teammates have supported incognito. rather than linking to all, i just used the tucker tweet to support that bullet.

      there were reports pre-draft that martin was soft. i remember this because i was surprised that his draft stock fell so far.

      martin’s chosen profession calls for him to to dominate physically a 6-5/300 athlete 70 snaps a game, 16 games a year. martin’s job is physically impose his will against over other 800/year. so it’s not unreasonable that ‘being tough’ both mentally and physically is important in his highly paid chosen profession.

      i dont know that martin is hypersensitive or introverted but if he is and it prevents him from being effective at his job, then maybe he should get a new job. not everyone can be an NFL o-lineman. but if he really wants to be an nfl o-lineman, litigation is an unlikely way to reach that goal.

      also: i never blamed martin for not being the quintessential jock. i am stating the fact that he has ruined the life of a friend of his. i find his attempt for remedy via litigation … soft.

      • Dan

        The eyewitness account was from previous to the time that we are talking so it is worthless. And what other players are backing Incognito, is it the same players that are implicated in the bullying report?

        Also, being mentally tough to withstand the physical demands of being an NFL lineman does not go hand in hand with being mentally tough enough to withstand the constant mental abuse Martin suffered from dicks like Incognito. I do not think him being hypersensitive or an introvert prevents him from being an offensive tackle effectively. I do think it explains why he felt he had to remove himself from abusive “friend”. They are two completely separate things. Also, you did not say that Martin’s draft stock dropped because he was “soft” (again not based on the articles you gave, which state that he underperformed in his pro day), but that he had some type of mental “problem”.

        If not through litigation, I would ask what other way was Martin supposed to attempt to remedy the situation. He had asked for help from his coaches and the organization and their brilliant plan was to put Incognito in charge of him. I am just at a loss of comprehension of how Martin was supposed to solve this issue without going outside of the organization. “Hey, I am depressed and this guy is constantly harassing me, and no one in the front office will help, but hey, I should just become less soft.”

        • i know a bit about depression myself. i would ask you not to personalize this.

          • Dan

            I am not personalizing this. If you read Martin’s texts to his family, it is pretty obvious that Martin was suffering from it. And as a person who knows about it, I would hope yo understand the difference between being “soft” and being depressed.

          • Warburton MacKinnon

            Hate to jump on the bandwagon,but I think you are way off on Incognito, although he was not alone in his behavior,nor was Martin the only target. At least one trainer and several other players were targets,for whatever reason Martin seemed to be the weak link and easiest to break,have a feeling Incognito and company had a huge laugh and several drinks when he left. There is an interesting areticle posted on that talks about what was found in the NFLs investigation..I think in may even post some or all of the report. In their take (Slates) it was worse,went further and involved more people…To me it seems the same type of behavior that ‘seem’ to have ocurred is the same thing motivating some players to speak out about a gay player on their team. Being tough physicaly is not the same as being mentally tough,Mike Tyson is a perfext example.

          • bupalos

            Maybe he should have grabbed a golf club and diddled his crotch with it, you know, had an Incognito adult-to-adult style conversation.


        • Petefranklin

          Jim you are finally wrong. Ingognito has been a documented dick where ever he has played. Just ask Tannehill about his credit card bill for jetskis that Incognito bought/stole out of the Dolphins locker room

          • being a dick is different from being cut from the team for bullying. w.r.t. to tannehill:

            Ryan Tannehill: “Richie Incognito was the best possible teammate I could have asked for.”

            — Bart Hubbuch (@HubbuchNYP) November 6, 2013

          • actovegin1armstrong

            Ryan Tannehill: “Richie Incognito was the best possible teammate I could have asked for. Well…. and he threatened to attack my wife if I did not vouch for him.”

        • here’s some teammates:

          Tannehill: “Richie Incognito was the best possible teammate I could have asked for. … If you asked Jonathan Martin who his best friend is on this team two weeks ago, he’d say Richie Incognito.”

          Hartline: Outraged because he says Martin was passing the voicemail around earlier in the year and laughing about it. Insists that Incognito isn’t a racist. Labels the question ridiculous and says he doesn’t even understand it.

          Clabo: Said Incognito treated Martin no different than any other player on the offensive line. “”What’s perceived is Richie is this psychopath, racist, maniac — right? And the reality is that Richie was a pretty good teammate, and that Richie and Jonathan Martin are friends, or appeared to be friends.”

          Solial: “[Incognito] was a hard-working guy, come out ready to work. Funny guy. He was always a guy that put a smile on your face every morning. If the day’s going slow, you’d know he’d pick everything up. He was a leader.”

          Starks: Incognito took Martin under his wings, was like a big brother to him. On why they’re speaking up after initially being told not to talk: “We want to clear Richie’s name.”

          Pouncey and Wallace also want Incognito on team saying they “respect” and “love” Incognito.

          that’s seven teammates willing to touch this turd of a subject for incognito. i find this persuasive. everyone else, i guess, does not. ohkay.

          • actovegin1armstrong

            Pouncey also wore a “Free Aaron Hernandez” hat. So he is a bully punk who loves murderers and other bullies.
            You have a really credible witness there. Puoncey is a punk ass jackal, (no, jackal’s are no where near as bad), who followed the other bully Incognito because he is too much of a coward to stand up for Martin, or at least the integrity of their team/o-line.

  • actovegin1armstrong

    Hi kids would you like to chew on this can of worms?
    Going against all of my principals, but I like this guy’s raw talent. Brett Smith with the 3rd or 4th round pick? I have him as the 2nd, or maybe even first rated QB in this year’s draft.

    • that’s fine. have to say i thought wyoming was going to do more this year and ditto that for smith. just looking at his game log and i tend to discount his 7TD/500yd hawaii game and find the performances against fresno and utah state more useful (and they aren’t stellar).

      • actovegin1armstrong

        To quote the great H. L. Mencken, “you are probably right.”
        I did not know about his bad games, in fact I only saw one game so I am certainly not an authority. I cannot remember the opponent. He did get happy feet a couple of times and that is the worst thing for a QB to have, but it looked like he was harried trying to do too much, rather than because he was afraid of failure, or d-linemen. That problem does not get worse at the next level and it is very coach-able. I did not know about the Hawaii game, but I am not a sasissicks, (as David Letterman would say), guy, I only have my much less than learned “eyeball test”. Sorry about that, just an easily dismissed, small can of worms.

    • Petefranklin

      No way any MW QB should go that high. I love the MW, but this was a total down year for the league, especially the defenses. Even Air Force’s QB had some time and open receivers, which he usually missed. I would compare the MW this past year to the Big 12 the year we drafted Weeds, gaudy on offense and lacking in team defense. Now I’m not sure what the situation is with Chuckie Keaton and his broken leg is, but I did really like him. But… Utah St played pretty well on offense after the backup got his feet wet, so I’m not sure that his(Keaton’s) game will translate on the next level either. One thing about MW QB’s that I am pretty sure of is that some team will get burned drafting Carr in the 1st or 2nd round.

      • actovegin1armstrong

        Ok Pete, I believe you. What should the Browns do with their 2nd through 6th round draft picks?

        • Petefranklin

          2nd- draft a WR if they didn’t already select one
          3rd- grab the “sleeper” QB who Farmer thinks is worthy

          I am not a draft expert, and don’t really follow players. I just go by what I’ve seen on the field, which isn’t a whole lot more than the average fan. Two things that I am reasonably sure of though are: #1 This draft is loaded with WR’s and the Browns would be fools to not take advantage. #2 The QB play in CFB was some of the best that I’ve ever seen as a whole and the Browns should be able to find a guy who can be the guy somewhere in the draft. This may take a lot of out of the box thinking when it comes to the OC and I’m not so sure that Kyle can adapt to running an offense that doesn’t revolve around a drop back QB.
          Also, I don’t remember seeing the Wyoming QB at all so I can’t say he isn’t good, just that MW defenses were bad.

          • actovegin1armstrong

            OK, I am in, Petey picks the draft.

          • Petefranklin

            We’re in trouble now!

  • zarathustra

    My last point and I will happily exit all of this. Your criticisms of the 2013 personnel moves were that they drafted mingo 6th, traded away some picks for higher picks in ’14(thereby missing out on shamarko Thomas if memory serves), trading trent richardson (I know you were not a fan of his, but I don’t think I am being disingenuous in saying you were pretty miffed when that went down,) and finally the cap space issue. We’ve exchanged barbs on this for a year now so there’s not much more to be said. But regarding the cap space “rollover” you were so incensed about: why was it ok for heckert to go into 2012 with $20m–and use pretty much none of it–and be deserving of another year, but the unused cap space of 2013 was exhibit a in the kannick prosecution of banner and lombardi? The only way that I can square this is that you had a predetermined hostility to these guys. I certainly don’t begrudge you that, but why not just say it. Each of them are admittedly easy to dislike–frankly I don’t know that i’ve ever discerned a likable quality in either–but you held them to an unfair standard as a first year front office.

    • lookit your framing my take wrong.

      first all GMs have misses, it’s part of reality. (to use your technique: here’s my plea for a single example of a successful front office who never blew a pick or a signing.)

      but i’m just applying the banner takes. it wasn’t me, it was joe banner, who said this:
      Everybody talked about a long-term plan, but when’s the last time the team traded for a future draft pick? When’s the last time the team said, ‘We may not have position ‘X’ with the best player this year because there’s nobody in the marketplace who’s that good, and we don’t want to waste all the future cap money just so we win six games instead of five?

      and this:
      We are not asking for a free pass this year or any year. They should expect the team to be better. They should expect the team to play hard. They should expect it to be obvious that things are different. I’m happy being held to that standard, and I’m happy having everybody held to that standard.

      so joe banner shat on tom heckert and didn’t want no free pass this year.

      welp heckert left him with six probowler and capspace and draft picks, and banner didn’t make the team better.

      he doesnt want your free pass, why are you giving one?

      • zarathustra

        I by no means expect a gm to hit on every pick and I have always been of the belief that it takes at least a few years to properly evaluate the success of a pick–for instance two of the above six probowlers you mentioned could very easily have been declared busts prior to the installation of a competent coaching staff last year. Although apparently i am wrong about needing more than a year to evaluate draft picks as i have encountered absolutely no one who doesn’t accept that the ’13 draft was a disaster–perhaps with a more telegenic man in charge everyone will rediscover the patience i advocate (indeed i am banking on this happening.)
        Heckert bequeathed thomas and mack the same way lombardi and banner bequeathed josh gordon to ray farmer. But I have never stated Heckert was awful, just that he was not good enough after three years on the job. And it is incredibly unfair to compare the top players he acquired in three years on the job–with extra draft picks inherited from mangini I might add–to the top players added in one year under banner/lombardi. We can’t really compare free agent signings though because heckert sat on his cap space, right? And he did sit on a lot of cap space. Was he too stupid/incompetent to know it doesn’t rollover?
        I granted no free passes. The browns were improved in 2013 from 2012 and are an a position to improve further in 2014 thanks to extra draft picks acquired by the bad guys. If the browns had had competent qb play all year the record would have been much improved. (I believe you have acknowledged this yourself.) We actually did have competent qb play for a short stretch–did you think they looked improved in that stretch? The qb was not brandon weeden or colt McCoy or Seneca wallace. It was Brian Hoyer, who likely won’t be the guy this team needs long term but was the only competent qb we have seen in a decade or so. Lombardi signed him and was actually mocked for it.
        And as I know you have a good memory I find ita bit ironic that you were so scandalized by a pretty innocuous jab at Heckert by banner when it was heckert who went to the media to specifically criticize mangini for for not playing the immortal Jaime Mitchell a year after mangini had been fired. Perhaps he and banner went to the same finishing school in Philly.

        • Warburton MacKinnon

          In almost 0 metrics,or measurables were the Browns better in 2013,I will ignore a draft that produced 0 starters as a gift. First and foremost we had less wins,second we abandoned the run so much more this season i almost wished the last group were in charge(no real quibbles with trading TR except we still got much less back thaan we paid for him,we traded up for him, then we just kind of gave up on running backs..or at least it seemed that way), third we went from a bend don’t break D to a stiff then crack like an egg D that couldn’t get off the field on 3rd downs. We allowed to fan favorites to leave from special teams one whom was probably the best and another whom was close to it when healthy( and he was even better as a cover man during returns than he was a returner) over money we ended up not spending. Fourth we didn’t extend Mack,but gave Bess an extension. Fith an accountant was making all the player decisions,excluding bringing in Hoyer(whom was extremely lucky in his first start after throwing 3 ints)…did Lombardi do anything? Please help me by telling me where and how we improved,facts would help out a lot.

  • zarathustra

    On another note, Richie incognito is a wholly unsympathetic figure and Jonathan Martin is very sympathetic in mind, but you are absolutely correct on that issue.
    And re: Gamecocks. Good luck. This country turns a blind eye to the truly immoral way chickens are treated on factory farms and there is no way the people will allow themselves to question the appropriateness of a cockfighting mascot because to do so would require placing a moral value to animals that are not pets and that would require pretty radical dietary changes that most have no desire to make.

    • Food Inc is must watch.

      • Guest

        Are you guys still backing Richie Incognito today?

        • 100%. Hope the Browns sign him.

          • NeedsFoodBadly

            That was me above.

            That’s totally gross.

            EDIT: I don’t understand your feelings regarding the chicken thing in light of your acceptance and support of a guy who is grotesque, to say the least. I could understand you having an emotional response to the text exchange that got released earlier this week, and feeling like you got manipulated by Martin’s camp. Rest assured that Incognito’s people leaking their version is just as manipulative.

            But the report released today would put to bed any sort of lingering doubt about his actions and character (not to mention that golfing thing… you’re okay with that???)

            So if you’d care to comment further, I’d be interested. Because I don’t understand your hierarchy of sympathies.

          • gross is ruining your friend’s life.

          • seems like a lot of people are quick to judge someone theyve never met basing their opinions on [wait for it] what is reported by our friends in the media. i say again — the teammates’ testimony, testimony which once given puts they themselves at risk of rebuke, goes a long way with me.

            as far as hierarchical sympathies, a chicken has no say in the growth hormone he consumes. jonathan martin has had more opportunity than perhaps anyone, ever. both parents harvard lawyers. couldve been the first 4th gen black at harvard but goes to stanford. and then to the NFL.

            i get that i’m in the minority. but consider how many times you’ll hear coaches, fans, commentators talk about wanting more ‘blue-collar’ guys on their team. well incognito is a blue collar guy. (we’re all from ohio so i hope we all know that real blue-collar isn’t a springsteen motif.) martin is an archetype privileged elite. and he’s the victim here?

            sorry no, i don’t see that. incognito is the victim here and even in the face of teammates who vouch and texts that show those two were close friends people remain so committed to the cause that they STILL want incognito’s head on a pike.

            count me out of that crowd please and forgive me for having a different viewpoint.

          • NeedsFoodBadly

            What Incognito does has nothing to do with collars, blue or otherwise. Wall Street types do the same garbage, and it’s just as wrong as when they do it. It has nothing to do with economic class.

            Did you read today’s stuff? You honestly believe he’s a victim when he’s the one that’s harassing trainers for the crime of being Asian and drunkenly poking a woman in the crotch with a golf club?

          • can we just unretire jim brown’s number while were at this?

          • NeedsFoodBadly

            dude, that’s a soft reponse.

          • bupalos

            Yeah NFB, why don’t you just put on a dress and do pirouettes with all the other lefty elitist gaywad homo lame-stream-media lawyer sissies! Whoohooo, get me my golf club so I can put some pussy on the chainwax!!

          • really weird how you two, i guess, give martin a pass on wanting to wreck one vag and then eschewing another’s loose vagina. whatever fits the narrative, right?

            as for me, i’m horrified by martin’s objectifying women. whom do i sue?

          • NeedsFoodBadly

            Okay, so on that tack, it’s worse for Martin to be gross bros with Incognito via texts than for Incognito to get drunk and do the golf club thing?

          • link me to this golf club thing and does it have anything to do with richie incognito being ‘bullying’ toward martin?

          • Dan

            It has nothing to do with the bullying. Just like Martin’s texts about women has nothing to do with the bullying.

          • martin’s texts explicitly do have to do with a relationship and common vernacular established over the course of the relationship.

          • NeedsFoodBadly

            It was widely reported when the story first broke. Google “richie incognito golf club” and take your pick of reputable news articles. But in summary, he got drunk at a charity golf thing, and according to a police report, poured bottles of water on a female volunteer then “touched her genitals” with the golf club. She didn’t file charges after Incognito settled with her for 30K, but he was charged by the team a fine of 50K. He appealed the fine, but admitted he did something wrong. Apparently the appeal is ongoing.

            It’s included in the report, so clearly the independent NFL investigators felt it was necessary to comment on. I would presume it shows part of a pattern of abusive actions by Incognito that I think most people would find fairly reprehensible.

          • well i’m certainly not going to defend that; that’s gross.

            however,,, as you say it has nothing to do with the bullying. in court, it would be inadmissible. as would all the crap we now know about incognito at nebraska. he’s been raked over the coals.

            whether or not we want to agree on a ‘true friendship’ between the two, they certainly communicated a lot. martin should have addressed this with incognito. that’s just what i think.

          • Dan

            After reading the entire report for the investigator, how do you think it would go over if Martin just went up to Incognito and asked him to stop?

          • i dont know. it moot because he never did it, did he? for all you or i know, there would have been a moment of clarity.

          • NeedsFoodBadly

            From the report:

            “As an initial matter, Martin developed an odd but seemingly close friendship with Incognito. Not only did both linemen report that they enjoyed socializing together, the evidence also shows that they often communicated in a vulgar manner. Incognito contends that the conduct about which Martin complains was part of locker room banter meant in good fun and that Martin was a willing and active participant in verbal sparring, never letting on that he was hurt by it. Martin claims that at times he participated in off-color joking with Incognito and others in an attempt to fit in, with the hope of reducing the treatment he found offensive. According to our consulting expert, a psychologist who focuses on matters of workplace conduct, such a reaction is consistent with the behavior of a victim of abusive treatment.”

            From later on:

            “One player, whom we found credible, said that Incognito was “a good player, but he is kind of a disease; he divides a locker room. . . .[Incognito] is the kind of guy who has to be the alpha male.” This player went on to say that Incognito “feels like he has to make fun of the younger players,” and “people join in with him so he doesn’t make fun of them.” Nearly all of the players with whom we spoke appeared to tolerate Incognito’s more colorful and aggressive behavior, even if they did not embrace it.

          • havent we all worked with jackasses?


          • NeedsFoodBadly

            Furthermore, and this is long, but it’s important:

            We found that the Assistant Trainer, who was born in Japan, was the target of frequent and persistent harassment, including insults relating to his race and national origin. Incognito, Jerry and Pouncey admitted that they directed racially derogatory words toward him, including “Jap” and “Chinaman.” At times, according to Martin, they referred to the Assistant Trainer as a “dirty communist” or a “North Korean,” made demands such as “give me some water you fucking chink,” spoke to him in a phony, mocking Asian accent, including asking for “rubby rubby sucky sucky,” and called his mother a “rub and tug masseuse.” Martin and others informed us that Incognito and Jerry taunted the Assistant Trainer with jokes about having sex with his girlfriend. Incognito admitted that these types of comments were made to the Assistant Trainer.

            On December 7, 2012, the anniversary of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, Incognito, Jerry and Pouncey donned traditional Japanese headbands that featured a rising sun emblem (which the Assistant Trainer had given them) and jokingly threatened to harm the Assistant Trainer physically in retaliation for the Pearl Harbor attack. According to Martin, the Assistant Trainer confided in him that he was upset about the Pearl Harbor comments, finding them derogatory toward his heritage.

            Martin and another player we interviewed both believed that the Assistant Trainer awkwardly laughed along with some of the racial insults, even though he was in fact offended. And both players seemed offended by the flagrant racial harassment of the Assistant Trainer. In a text message sent on November 4, 2013, Martin told a friend: “I always felt so bad for [the Assistant Trainer] . . . it was really racist.” Martin claims that a number of Dolphins employees saw how the Assistant Trainer was humiliated but did not intervene, including his supervisor, head trainer Kevin O’Neill, who allegedly even laughed at some of the racial insults. As far as we know, none of the players, including Martin, confronted Incognito, Jerry or Pouncey about the racist comments directed at the Assistant Trainer or demanded that they cease.

            When interviewed about these matters, the Assistant Trainer initially pleaded that he not be required to answer certain questions, implying that he could not be forthright because he was concerned about losing the trust of the players. The Assistant Trainer further claimed that Incognito was his friend and asserted that Incognito had never offended him. He told us that he could not recall if Incognito had called him a “Chinaman” or a “Jap,” and refused to answer the question whether Incognito had said anything about his girlfriend, saying that the inquiry made him “very uncomfortable.”

            We did not find the Assistant Trainer’s denials believable. Notably, hours after Martin left the team on October 28, the Assistant Trainer sent him a text message indicating that he had indeed been personally offended by the insults directed at him by Incognito, Jerry and Pouncey: “Hey JM I understand how [y]ou feel man… They are relentless sometime…. Some day I wanna do exactly what you did today.” (emphasis added and ellipses in original). The ceaseless racial ridicule directed at the Assistant Trainer was appalling and plainly over the line in any workplace.

            We also find the treatment of the Assistant Trainer particularly troubling because he was not a fellow football player, but a subordinate, a member of the training staff. In our view, it is likely that the Assistant Trainer felt that he had no standing or ability to fight back, and feared the loss of his job if he protested and the players did not take kindly to his complaints. Again, as with Player A, we view the treatment of the Assistant Trainer as part of a pattern of abusive, unprofessional behavior.”

            That’s not boys being boys. It’s abusive, racist behavior in a toxic workplace. That’s what this is about, and why I ardently believe Incognito isn’t worth defending.

          • “The Assistant Trainer further claimed that Incognito was his friend and asserted that Incognito had never offended him.”

            “We did not find the Assistant Trainer’s denials believable.”

            that’s why i ardently believe this is a witch-hunt.

          • NeedsFoodBadly

            You don’t understand that Incognito was in a position of power and privilege over the trainer as a player?

            You don’t understand that the trainer’s behavior is, as noted by a psychologist, part and parcel of an abusive workplace?

            It’s clear you haven’t looked at the report, and that if you do, you’ll take a jaundiced eye to the thing now. Because I think at this point, your back is against the wall because a few people disagree with you and you would rather doggedly argue in favor of an abusive jerk rather than look at what actually happened and admit your support of him is in the wrong.

            This isn’t a witch hunt though. This is a racist, abusive jerk getting exposed as such, who’s going to walk away from the whole thing with millions of dollars. So I wouldn’t characterize his life as ruined, since he still has his supporters and the worst that’ll happen is some people say some mean things about him on the internet. I’d rather be a millionaire myself and have people say mean things about me than work next to a guy like Richie Incognito.

            That’s my piece, I’m punching out of this discussion now.

          • bupalos

            I’m starting to simply not get this. It’s pretty rare that I think further argument or commentary would be useless, but here I do. i mean, maybe you just haven’t read the stuff or something. Or maybe you’re under terrible stress, or being bullied or something. You need to check yourself in.

          • bupalos

            I’m not giving anyone a pass on anything, and I’m not going into deep weeds on who said the nastiest nasties, and whether they said it to fit in or said it to bully. You’re the one jumping to the defense of the prima facie indefensible, and wandering down the corridors of relativism to try and arrive at room 1950 way in the back on the right.

            Yay we’re sensitive? Yeah, I hope we are. It’s too bad that’s some kind of rejoinder, or you think that has to be a pose.

          • two guys have a relationship and in the context of the relationship coarse language is exchanged. CALL THE FUCKING COPS MAN!!!!!! DRUM HIM OUT OF THE LEAGUE!! DOCK HIS PAY!!

            i mean right? that’s what you want.

            mother of god, with our newfound enlightenment it’s amazing we even made it to 2014.

          • Dan

            Again this issue is not about text messages. It is about a prolonged instance of bullying. The question is whether Incognito bullied Martin. The texts, when they were first revealed suggested that. When put in context, they don’t so much. That does not explain away an investigation into the bullying which shows that Incognito bullied Martin and was basically an all around asshole to everyone he came into contact with.

          • NeedsFoodBadly

            that’s not all that happened though.

          • bupalos

            >>>two guys have a relationship and in the context of the relationship coarse language is exchanged.>>>
            You really have about the shallowest understanding of human types I can imagine if you really think this is the story here. Super Foxy.

            Right. These guys were just friends and total soulmates, having fun, but this one guy has an elitist lamestreammedia lawyer mom who has brainwashed him into making it the No Fun League so’s they can feather their elitist nest yet more and he can get some quality time in a mental ward.

            Any introvert soul who has been in the sights of a bully knows exactly how this thing goes, and an introvert trying to chum up to the gross guy that’s all up in his face fits it perfectly, and the gross guy trying to pressure him to be just as gross and to do it to others fits it perfectly. And the introvert breaking down because that’s not who he is but he couldn’t see any other way out fits it perfectly. I’ll give you a pass here because you clearly and obviously just haven’t been here and have no insight on this whatsoever.

          • you dont think his mother’s job as an employment law specialist played a role here? and i have a shallow understanding of human types?

          • bupalos

            May have played a role in how she counseled him to handle it, if she did…Like son, you don’t have to put up with that or change who you are and pretend to be a flaming asshole like that flaming asshole; if this guy is making your contracted workplace untenable with inappropriate behavior, you have the right to leave and recoup some of that contract.

            And I see little wrong with this, even though I understand it flies in the face of the 1950’s and the god-given right to make fun of gay people and is ruining all the fun and so forth. And I also understand that Martin probably has his own issues and can be accused in different ways as well.

            My bottom line is that neither you nor I know how this really went, but your insistence that the problem here must lie on one side, and that that can’t be the side of the dirtiest player in the NFL– a guy that mocks Asians in the vilest ways and dumps water on waitresses and pokes them in the lady-regions and petty nearly gets drummed out of the league for personality issues….that this guy just simply must be a victim of the lamestreammedia assault on traditional blue collar values and someone we 100% need to sign pronto…. yeah, I think it requires a certain flattening of the human landscape to accommodate this take.

          • no it’s really not.

            you’ve got incognito under a microscope and youre having good fun with him on the 21st century pillory. everyone brought their rotten vegetables and all stand morally superior. YAY! WE”RE SENSITIVE!!

            but if you really want to do this, you really ought be looking at all texts from all player and examining history, not just the poor dumb slob who tried to help the sensitive stanford grad. because we wont stand for this bullying, nosiree.

          • Dan

            You have a very odd definition of the phrase “tried to help.”

          • NeedsFoodBadly

            I get that you dislike Martin for being a shy dude from a place of privilege, but you’re ignoring that he wasn’t Incognito’s only target.

            You characterize the Martin/Incognito much differently than I do. You see them as having a genuine friendship that one betrayed for some reason, perhaps due to a mental collapse. I see a guy who was forced to deal daily with an annoying, overbearing, essentially abusive co-worker who tried to handle it as amicably as he could, until it became too much. I mean, that’s what the texts to Incognito read like, that’s what the text to his parents read like.

            I’m not challenging you on your interpretation of that relationship, mine differs, that’s fine. That’s why I didn’t bring it up before. But the stuff today isn’t really open to an interpretation that I can understand. The golf stuff was already out there though and the trainer thing is so ridiculously over the top nasty and weird. I don’t get how you can back that.

          • i dislike martin for throwing his friend under the bus and endangering his livelihood.
            as far as ‘were they friends?’ they seem to have partied together every week for the last two years and several teammates said that they thought they were very tight. so that’s what i’m basing this on.

          • actovegin1armstrong

            Dirty play, sexual harassment with a golf club, bullying far beyond anything but a complete sociopath. Incognito is not a “blue collar guy” he is an orange jumpsuit guy.

          • actovegin1armstrong

            Cognito is a deplorable human, If the Browns do sign him I am going to slap him down Bagley until I find a suitable dumpster.

          • Petefranklin

            I’ve dumped a few alcoholic containers off at the villiage @ Pearl & Bagley. The dumpsters weren’t locked, let me know if you need help.

          • bupalos

            Ick. Are you insane? You can parse the situation between him and Martin however you want, but there’s kind of a bottom line that he’s at the very least not a well adjusted person or a player that is an asset in any other sense than what he’s *willing* to do on a football field–which is be the consensus dirtiest player in the league. And then what you’re implicitly saying about how you want your locker-room to be? Gah.

            Please reconsider this take. I have no idea what has caused you to jump on his side in this he-said/he-said, but even absent this bruhaha (and you won’t be absent it) Incognito is pretty much an embodiment of what’s wrong with football.

          • Petefranklin

            So when Incognito has a roid rage fit and cheap shots whomever from the opposing team, you ‘d be OK with a cheap shot taken as revenge on our franchise QB if we ever get one, right? That is what Incognito brings with him in just carryone baggage.

  • jpftribe

    I think the key question is two fold:
    Is Farmer the next Ozzie Newsome, or is Haslam the next Jerry Jones. Only time will tell, and we’ve heard that tune before.

    If I’m Farmer, here is my to do list:
    1. Find a veteran on the team who is not a dope smoking rasti to babysit Gordon on his off season rock star tour.
    2. Sign Haden to an extension.
    3. Re sign Mack.
    4. Cut fucking Weeden one second after midnight the day they can. Make sure the press release is time stamped as such.
    5. Have the balls to not draft Johnny Football, or any other QB in Round 1. Cosell did a piece on radio today on Manziel, nuff said for me.
    6. Promptly leak to MKC that Manziel is our guy.
    7. Leak to Grossi that Bortles is the guy and MKC doesn’t know what she is talking about.
    8. Do not trade up or out of the fourth pick. Use it on a stud, as long as they don’t. Play QB or RB.
    9. Exercise DQ’s option.
    Ok, maybe 6 and 7 are a reach, but it would be a really fun day on the twitter verse.

  • Tuesday was clearly the best day in Browns Town in quite a long time. Lombardi never should have been hired in the first place given his track record. It’s too bad Haslam couldn’t have figured that out before hiring him, but sometimes people have to learn these things for themselves.

    As has been stated here in the past, Banner and especially Lombardi seemed far more concerned with showing everyone how smart they (think) they are than working to make the Browns better.

    It’s a new day in Cleveland, with people who are actually talented, respected and sought-after around the league now working for the Browns. When was the last time we could say that?

    I don’t care about the path the Browns traveled to reach this point, I’m just very happy with the destination. Do good things in free agency, have a solid weekend at the draft, and by this fall no one will care about what has gone on for the past six weeks.

    And say what you will about Haslam, but he’s definitely photogenic when he puts on his pissed off face.

  • Tron

    Lets talk about what really matters. Now that Banner is gone does that mean we won’t be changing our uniforms?

  • zarathustra

    A heart congratulations to you. By my count you are joined in celebration by the esteemed tony grossi, mark “munch”bishop, well pretty much every sports talk host and without exception every sports talk radio caller. Oh, and let us not forget the clever chaps who like to disparage joe banner’s looks. Everybody is in agreement. I cannot even begin to imagine what could possibly go wrong. Nevermind that the same owner who replaced his self-appointed successor at pilot after six months just fired his gm after one offseason and the rumors of Peyton Manning have already begun. Nevermind that the entire Internet had a collective panic attack at the thought of Greg schiano being hired and the only person who prevented it from happening is now gone. Nevermind that the sainted new gm had no part in the hiring of the coach. Never mind the said new gm has spent pretty much the entirety of his brief career in pro personnel (btw he was decidedly not the head scout last year) and is now being thrust into the position the week before the combine (call it a hunch but my guess is if the roles were reversed and Lombardi were taking over the week before the combine that maybe a few folks would voice some concern.). Let us pay no mind to any of it. The villains have been vanquished. Twelve months on the job was sufficient to determine Lombardi a failure as browns gm. Now we have good guy ray farmer in charge and going forward can grade him on the heckert curve.

    • i think you’ve confused me with someone else. i know better than to claim, ‘that’s it; cant get any worse; nowhere but up from here.’ there’s a lot to worry about with the HC and GM reporting to jimmy.

      that being said.. banner wouldnt have had to save us from schiano if he hadn’t canned a good coach in the first place and/or been able to land one of three ‘top choices’ and/or hadnt had the balls to presume he knows how to pick asst coaches better than ken whisenhunt and/or hadn’t suggested kyle shanahan didnt need to know why they fired chud.

      On if any head-coach candidates said they would consider the position if Banner or Lombardi were not on staff:
      “I think that we got the best head coach that we could get, and I’m very excited about coach Pettine

      w.r.t. to schiano, i think when urban meyer and bill belichick (twice) vouch for a football coach, you have to talk to him, no?
      w.r.t. to the ‘heckert curve,’ he bequeathed 40M of cap space and six all-pros to banner. i mean i’m sorry banner didn’t recognize the talent on the team and opted to punt 2013 but banner didnt recognize the talent on the team and opted to punt 2013.
      w.r.t. 12 months sufficient to determine on lombardi, a ‘grade the banner/lombardi moves’ sounds like a fun snow-day post to work on but their personnel record, though sketchy, wasnt why they were fired. they were fired because coordinators and college football coaches would rather be coordinators and college coaches than HC the browns under a duo so untrustworthy.

      (the platform is yours z if you want to a counterpoint piece.)

      • zarathustra

        Given the temper tantrums we have actually seen from the owner in concert with the above mentioned abbreviated tenure of his pilot successor and now this I don’t think it unreasonable to suggest that maybe the chud firing wasn’t all on banner. And apparently kyle Shanahan wasn’t to scandalized as he is the current offensive coordinator of the team. (And now for a brief tangent. How do we know what was said in the interview with shanahan? Was it banner planting negative info about himself? And remember all those media leaks during the coaching search? Were those coming from the super-secretive banner and Lombardi? Or perhaps elsewhere. ..from people that still have jobs in the organization–maybe even larger roles than before? And how is it that everyone seems to know that steven Ross repeatedly called ray farmer by the wrong name during farmer’s interview with the dolphins? Again, was ross the one leaking negative info about himself to the media? It seems possible that these moves are the result of a few guys working the media pretty well and winning favor with a petulant billionaire in a masterfully triumph of office politics. On a personal level I find lombardi damn near abhorrent and he exudes charm compared to banner, but this is about building a football team and deficiencies in personality should be irrelevant. Moreover, I believe history is on my side in stating that winning over the cleveland media correlates pretty nicely with failure in constructing a football team.)
        Regarding Heckert: for someone who was beside himself with impatiance this past year I truly marvel at your elevation of a general manager who produced nothing but losing in three seasons and whose last draft produced a trade UP for trent richardson and brandon weeden. We have gone back and forth on this before and I will state that i believe your assessment of personnel moves under each regime is incongruous and is blinded by personal biases which I believe should best be removed from such assessments.
        As far as who did and did not want to become browns head coach all I know is that a damn promising coach in mike pettine wanted the job, that another promising coach in Dan quinn wanted the job, that another promising coach in josh McDaniels was very interested in the job and backed out of it not because of mike lombardi. I would again point to some the behind the scenes office politics as creating some of the team’s bad perception and I don’t think banner and lombardi were the only one playing office politics and certainly not playing it best.

        • jpftribe

          Your points regarding Heckert are spot on. Whether he did it himself or was loyal to Holmgren, he did it and it set this franchise back substantially. The RGIII trade fiasco was another screw up, and you cannot afford to make first round screw up.

          A larger point here though is why even use him as a comparison. He was the most successful Browns GM since the rebirth, hardly a lofty accomplishment and the Browns did nothing under his tenure.

          If Farmer was crafty enough to even partially engineer his rise as you elude to here, then I consider it a bonus. Banner and Lombardi were toxic to this organization and had to go. This draft would have been a disaster with these guys running it. Maybe he did it for personal gain, maybe he did it for the betterment of the organization. It ain’t easy to stage a coup, and its a high risk endeavor. But sometimes you gotta do whatcha gotta do.

          • zarathustra

            Heckert is relevant here because our host brought him up and to the extent that lombardi is criticized as a gm here it is useful to compare those criticisms to those of the man the author believes should have retained the job in his place. But you are correct that it is water under the bridge now and thankfully Heckert is gone.
            Farmer–and though I did not mention his name but with absolute factual certainty very much Mr. Scheiner as well–succeeding in office politics has no correlation in evaluating football players. Maybe Farmer will be good at that and even if he only ok at it I suspect mike pettine will be good enough to mask a lot of mistakes. But the top scout has left the team a week before the combine and is now employed by the patriots. I have some concerns about that.

          • lol. heckert _didnt_ bequeath a roster in need of minor tweaks and plenty of cap and draft to perform said tweak? ok.

            you like josh gordon? then thank tom heckert as there is 0% chance joe banner takes him in 2nd rd of supp draft. 0%.

            not for nothing but if your top scout isnt at the senior bowl he’s he either not your top scout or a very very bad top scout.

          • zarathustra

            I do indeed like josh Gordon. I’m not high on Greg little, nor montario hardesty, nor s. Lavao. And i’m really not high on Brandon weeden–nor colt McCoy or Seneca Wallace. Nor am I high on Trent Richardson. But thankfully he was traded for a first rounder–not the #3 overall pick where he was selected of course, but a first rounder nonetheless. (What kind of pick do you think the colts could get for richardson today?) In three years of building a roster did a Heckert team ever exceed 5 wins? No, but he just needed more time. Three years is insufficient in judging a gm…unless it happens to be one you didn’t like beforehand. Then three months is all it takes to judge them a total failure.

          • actovegin1armstrong

            “Then three months is all it takes to judge them a total failure.”
            Fantastic Zara! We agree, Heckert was a total failure!
            Greg Little, a running back who has a difficult time catching the ball.
            Montsaskatchewan Hardesty, trading up to take a real reach with a talented, but often injured running back. NEVER DRAFT a QUARTERBACK or RUNNING BACK in the first three rounds!
            Clot McChipps a questionable selection of a rich, ridiculously entitled, play for jesus guy. Where is Clot McChips now?
            Shawn Lauvao, “helping d-lineman improve their careers since 2010.”
            Greg Little- He is not a receiver.
            Owen Marecic- What do you think?
            Phil Taylor- I like the guy, but he may not be worthy of his lofty selection.
            Trent Bitchardson- Traded up to take the “red flag” king of the draft.
            Brandon Weeden- Unsuccessful with the Browns, but they will cut him, or trade him to the Patriots for a 6th round pick, then he will go on to a terrific, but shortened NFL career.
            Heckert’s only good pick was taking Josh Gordon as a sup 2nd.

          • zarathustra

            Oh my, how in the world could I have forgotten Owen Marecic! To be fair mid-rounders can be a bit of crap shoot, but at the same time missing on fullback should be damn near impossible. Taylor was taken too high–and let us not forget they traded up for him too–but he is a solid player which is more than can be said for all of the other wasted 1st and 2nd round picks you listed.
            It should be noted as well that t.j. ward was pretty much a bust until this year when a competent defensive staff finally put him in a position to succeed. And the jury is still out on Mitchell schwartz. I hope he succeeds, but if not that would mean a truly remarkable three busts in the top 40 picks of the same draft. That would make the much reviled kokinis draft look like the Paul brown salad days of the fifties in comparison.

          • actovegin1armstrong

            I was incorrect in my thinking, I recall that they traded down for Phil Taylor. I thought they left Julio down by the school yard and gained an extra pick. Perhaps I shall try that Goooooogle thing.

          • the traded down AND up for taylor. the had atl’s pick from jujones then gave kc a 3rd rd pick to move up a couple slots. that 3rd rounder turned into justin houston.

          • bupalos

            >>>that 3rd rounder turned into justin houston.>>>

            God damn it.

          • Warburton MacKinnon

            don’t forget the fullback they let go because they drafted Owen, much more of a travesty in my opinion.

          • Warburton MacKinnon

            Well a minor caveat on Heckart,whom I always thought was overated, would be NONE of the QB decisions were his, Delhome and Seneca were Holmgren,and he has said he overuled/pulled rank to draft McCoy…was probably similar on Weedon in whom I think Holmgren saw visions of a Farvian gunslinger and instead got a saspirilla drinking milktoast ginger. Heckert really sucked on the top half of most of his drafts(did he draft Haden???) but found some good pieces later. So yeah calling him the best we have had since our rebirth is a bit of a backhanded compliment,but at least truish. Thing is he at least tried to do a few complete drafts,something the guys whom just left didn’t do the only time that they stepped to the plate. Heck might not have been good but he wasn’t as bad as the next bunch,granted maybe they could have improved, I didn’t want to wait on that considering the fiasco of the season overall with them in charge.

      • zarathustra

        Oops. I forgot my obligatory plea for a single example of a successful front office who went hog wild with cap space in their first year. It has been almost a year that you have been criticising the failure to blow all the cap space and also almost a year since I have on several occasions asked you to provide such examples. Your inability to do so demonstrates how radical and irresponsible your plan and thereby your critique of free agency is.

        • pfft, free agency isnt for going ‘hog wild’ free agency is for plugging holes.

          as for an example of how to use cap space to build a team: chiefs traded a couple 2nd rd picks and agreed to a 3yr/25M contract with alex smith, won their first 9, finished 11-5.

          it’s not radical to use cap space to patch holes.

          it IS irresponsible to spend 75M _and_ the #6 overall on the one area that was a strength of the team.

          • zarathustra

            $75m guaranteed? If not I trust you understand that that is a misleading number. Either way the chiefs hardly went on the irresponsible spending spree that you have criticized the browns for not partaking in– $25m over 3 years doesn’t qualify. Moreover, the chiefs roster heading into the 2013 off-season was far superior to the browns–and call me crazy but I am going to hold off on declaring Andy and the boys a success just yet.
            “Patching holes” is a euphemism for spending cap space and the browns absolutely did “patch holes” last year and set the stage to patch a whole lot more this year. I know mingo is a total best and the 2013 draft was an unmitigated disaster because it did not produce all-pro rookies, but it is still a bit odd that someone who seems pretty intrigued by clowney at #4* this year is outraged they took mingo at #6 last year. What about jabaal sheard? He’s all we need.

            *fwiw I am also intrigued by this.

          • actovegin1armstrong

            :”I know mingo is a total best”
            “best” as in best and most talented, underutilized player in the NFL??

          • actovegin1armstrong

            When shall we revisit our re-tread QB conversation?
            Alex Smith is that no good, bum, high draft choice, talent-less QB for San Francisco, right? The Browns need a re-tread! They should not waste a draft pick on a QB. Hoyer may be “that guy”, or it could be the new and improved Jamarcus Russell. (Just an example for pondering purposes.) Pondering purposes?? What about that Ponder guy??

          • hoyer could be that guy. hell, i say don’t sleep on chad henne.
            and alex smith was gravely misunderstood and under appreciated in sf.

      • actovegin1armstrong

        You heard it somewhere first!
        The Brown’s most pressing problem will be the forthcoming “Shanahan Rebellion”.

    • Yes, people would be concerned if Lombardi took over a week before the NFL Combine because Lombardi is completely unqualified for the role of an NFL general manager. His track record speaks for itself as does the the fact that not a single other NFL team would hire him as a GM.

      Farmer is new to the position but not the team. He’s been with the Browns for a year, knows the personnel, knows where the holes are, was at the Senior Bowl, he will be fine.

      • jpftribe

        Don’t know if Farmer will be fine or not, but at least he has played the game of football. That is more than can be said for two dearly departed.

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